Reno Lap Speed Question..

[J.A.W.]

Excuse my being so ah,' ignorant' [ as Michael Jackson would say]..

But is the Reno lap speed measured as..

TAS from the ground, via aircraft borne transponder?

Or..

IAS as measured by the aircraft ASI?

Or ..

Calculated from lap times as time-to-distance?

[morss]

Re: Reno Lap Speed Question..

since there has been air racing ,speeds were calculate by measuring course length and time. the closer you flew to the actual corse the better your time would be.This has continued and is what the fai still uses today for records.the only venue not to follow this in the history of air racing is reno.

[BillRo]

Re: Reno Lap Speed Question..

Everywhere except Reno the course length is the total straight line distance between the pylons and I believe this has been the case historically. Since 2003 Reno have used an arbitrary system that they call the "Optimum Race Path". This is a calculated distance using a radius around the pylons (with no provision for pylon clearance) derived from a theoretical speed and "g" loading for that particular class of aircraft with straight sections joining the radii. In the case of the Biplanes and F1, this results in a different course length for the two classes even though they use the same pylons. Nuts IMHO.

In Formula One the result is a course length 2.18% longer than actual and a speed increase of 4.5 to 5.5 m/h. Although Reno denies it I believe the reason was to enable them to promote a 500m/h Unlimited lap record.

BillRo

[wingman]

Re: Reno Lap Speed Question..

Nuts IMHO.


BillRo

While I agree with the sentiment, I might question the "humble" part, LOL

Neal

[BillRo]

Re: Reno Lap Speed Question..

I replied about the distance part of the equation, but what about timing? The timing is done with cameras mounted in a booth on top of the grandstand, opposite the home pylon. At the bottom of each digital? frame is a time stamp; the timers locate the frame when the first plane that comes around after the pace lap "starts the clock" with its nose at home; they then find the frames where each one of the finishers crosses home at the checker and the time difference gives them the race time for each plane. Knowing the course length, the scoring program will calculate race speed and add in time for any pylon cut penalties. Reno does not record individual lap speeds except during Qual, so that is up to the crews.

BillRo

[Idaho_cowpony]

Re: Reno Lap Speed Question..

Everywhere except Reno the course length is the total straight line distance between the pylons and I believe this has been the case historically. Since 2003 Reno have used an arbitrary system that they call the "Optimum Race Path". This is a calculated distance using a radius around the pylons (with no provision for pylon clearance) derived from a theoretical speed and "g" loading for that particular class of aircraft with straight sections joining the radii. In the case of the Biplanes and F1, this results in a different course length for the two classes even though they use the same pylons. Nuts IMHO.

In Formula One the result is a course length 2.18% longer than actual and a speed increase of 4.5 to 5.5 m/h. Although Reno denies it I believe the reason was to enable them to promote a 500m/h Unlimited lap record.

BillRo

Couldn't agree more.

Really wish RARA would have stuck with the old and proven method. But yes, it was a scheme to 'break' the 500. So in fact, it has not yet been busted. AND a certain Griffon powered stang really did go faster it's first year out in '88.

- Joseph

[Big_Jim]

Re: Reno Lap Speed Question..

Couldn't agree more.

Really wish RARA would have stuck with the old and proven method. But yes, it was a scheme to 'break' the 500. So in fact, it has not yet been busted. AND a certain Griffon powered stang really did go faster it's first year out in '88.

- Joseph

The fastest Whittington went with that plane in '88 was 453 in qualifying. How does your math equate?

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Re: Reno Lap Speed Question..

The fastest Whittington went with that plane in '88 was 453 in qualifying. How does your math equate?

I don't care we still beat it! More to come.

[Idaho_cowpony]

Re: Reno Lap Speed Question..

Oh c'mon Big Jim; the math is easy!

However, from what I've heard, the new propellers alone, when tested at altitude with predetermined engine settings, gave 'Metal' upwards of an extra 40mph. I have no doubt that the #38 of '12 WAS faster than in '88, and perhaps even exhibited some faster true speeds on area(s) of the course. However, she would have needed to qualify around 465mph to beat the 453... and I shouldn't have to spell it, the math has been done on many other threads.

I personally believe the aircraft is capable of turning laps consistently over 500, based on the new course method. Which would be approaching the upper 480's... Pretty dern fast.

- Joseph

[wingman]

Re: Reno Lap Speed Question..

It's also worth pointing out that Dandy Don did it for one lap, and, IIRC, had to change the engine afterwards. After that the airplane never did show much, until Thom took over.

I have always loved that machine. It's so good to finally see it in the right hands...

Neal

[Big_Jim]

Re: Reno Lap Speed Question..

It's also worth pointing out that Dandy Don did it for one lap, and, IIRC, had to change the engine afterwards. After that the airplane never did show much, until Thom took over.

I have always loved that machine. It's so good to finally see it in the right hands...

Neal

They didn't change the engine, but they took the banks off and swapped a few parts out. Jeff Neff told me it was never a problem of the manifold pressure they were pulling so much as the rpms that they were turning. IIRC they turned 3200 in qualifying....and Don wanted to run 3500 during the race. Jeff wasn't keen on that, but that's what Don wanted...and we saw what happened.

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Re: Reno Lap Speed Question..

They didn't change the engine, but they took the banks off and swapped a few parts out. Jeff Neff told me it was never a problem of the manifold pressure they were pulling so much as the rpms that they were turning. IIRC they turned 3200 in qualifying....and Don wanted to run 3500 during the race. Jeff wasn't keen on that, but that's what Don wanted...and we saw what happened.

And the most we have run so far is 2750@80 in/hg. HA! Well there was this one lap on Friday That was a 1:01.90 lap.

[Idaho_cowpony]

Re: Reno Lap Speed Question..

So that 1:01.90 would come out around 471?

- Joseph

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Re: Reno Lap Speed Question..

So that 1:01.90 would come out around 460? (Or just over 445mph based on the old school)

- Joseph

My offical unlimited class speed chart shows 471 mph. Nice edit after I posted Idaho BTW.

[Idaho_cowpony]

Re: Reno Lap Speed Question..

Sorry about that.. was looking at numbers from '11