Why no 3350's with P.R.T.'s.?

[JetsareforKids]

Since we have had some engine people posting lately maybe they can answer my question. Why have there never been many 3350's equipped with P.R.T.'s at Reno. The only one I can think of was Mr Awesome. Is the motor too heavy, or maybe they don't like taking the G-forces on the course. It seems like the extra horsepower would be nice to have.

[RichH]

Re: Why no 3350's with P.R.T.'s.?

"MonkeyMotion"

[Race5]

Re: Why no 3350's with P.R.T.'s.?

Too big, heavy, and complex for very little gain compared to a full on race built motor.

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Re: Why no 3350's with P.R.T.'s.?

Since we have had some engine people posting lately maybe they can answer my question. Why have there never been many 3350's equipped with P.R.T.'s at Reno. The only one I can think of was Mr Awesome. Is the motor too heavy, or maybe they don't like taking the G-forces on the course. It seems like the extra horsepower would be nice to have.

Simple answer. It's been tried with very limited results. Other combos just worked better with no question marks.

[ChrisMX105]

Re: Why no 3350's with P.R.T.'s.?

I believe that a big part of it is that the PRT system was not designed to handle the turbulence and G's encountered on the course. Add the weight, I believe some extra length etc and soon you are on the wrong side of diminishing returns.

Does Jack Frost still own the Mr. Awesome pieces?

[440_Magnum]

Re: Why no 3350's with P.R.T.'s.?

Arent PRTs most effective at low engine RPM / high altitude / high blower gear? That's certainly the environment where they were used most often (DC-7C, Starliner, etc.). And certainly very different from the Reno race environment- lower density altitude, high RPM, low blower gear.

[MIKE NIXON]

Re: Why no 3350's with P.R.T.'s.?

Thats been my question for years.
Lenght: When I did Mike Browns engine it was a PRT case and supercharger. We removed the PRTs and blocked off the ports. Why would you want 600 free HP when you can run more boost and ADI and Fuel and CI-2 etc?
Weight: The extra 200#'s is there but offsets some exhaust weight and extra fuel etc.
Complex: if it was any simpler a kid could do it. Airlines wanted simple.
Operational limits: Reno is 9 to 10 K air on a warm day, we run in low blower at the high end of the curve but to low for high. Take off is normal for the engine operating with PRT's.
It worked in Mr A as far as performance was concerned.
Oh, and the engine comes with fuel injection, and is set up for ADI from the factory. When you consider the engine is operated below its full potential by at least 20% there is some real potential HP to be made.
However that is the same as using the scope to check the ignition on the 3350. It works too well when you know what it says and you can't guess at the problems?
Add to all the above some rings just for racing, regrind the cam rings for more tq and you would have a real powerplant with serious HP and reliabilty.
But what do I know about racing?

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Re: Why no 3350's with P.R.T.'s.?

Thats been my question for years.
Lenght: When I did Mike Browns engine it was a PRT case and supercharger. We removed the PRTs and blocked off the ports. Why would you want 600 free HP when you can run more boost and ADI and Fuel and CI-2 etc?
Weight: The extra 200#'s is there but offsets some exhaust weight and extra fuel etc.
Complex: if it was any simpler a kid could do it. Airlines wanted simple.
Operational limits: Reno is 9 to 10 K air on a warm day, we run in low blower at the high end of the curve but to low for high. Take off is normal for the engine operating with PRT's.
It worked in Mr A as far as performance was concerned.
Oh, and the engine comes with fuel injection, and is set up for ADI from the factory. When you consider the engine is operated below its full potential by at least 20% there is some real potential HP to be made.
However that is the same as using the scope to check the ignition on the 3350. It works too well when you know what it says and you can't guess at the problems?
Add to all the above some rings just for racing, regrind the cam rings for more tq and you would have a real powerplant with serious HP and reliabilty.
But what do I know about racing?

God who is this guy

[FlyKidChris]

Re: Why no 3350's with P.R.T.'s.?

Thats been my question for years... ...when you can run more boost and ADI and Fuel and CI-2 etc?

"CI-2"?

I'm scratching my ginormous head and haven't figured that one out yet. Can you offer an explanation, please?

[RichH]

Re: Why no 3350's with P.R.T.'s.?

"CI-2"?

I'm scratching my ginormous head and haven't figured that one out yet. Can you offer an explanation, please?

CI-2 = fuel additive

[Randy Haskin]

Re: Why no 3350's with P.R.T.'s.?

It works too well when you know what it says and you can't guess at the problems

Complete awesomeness.

[MIKE NIXON]

Re: Why no 3350's with P.R.T.'s.?

CI-2 slows the burn rate and in effect raises the octane around 10 points

[3350nut]

Re: Why no 3350's with P.R.T.'s.?

Thats been my question for years.
Lenght: When I did Mike Browns engine it was a PRT case and supercharger. We removed the PRTs and blocked off the ports. Why would you want 600 free HP when you can run more boost and ADI and Fuel and CI-2 etc?
Weight: The extra 200#'s is there but offsets some exhaust weight and extra fuel etc.
Complex: if it was any simpler a kid could do it. Airlines wanted simple.
Operational limits: Reno is 9 to 10 K air on a warm day, we run in low blower at the high end of the curve but to low for high. Take off is normal for the engine operating with PRT's.
It worked in Mr A as far as performance was concerned.
Oh, and the engine comes with fuel injection, and is set up for ADI from the factory. When you consider the engine is operated below its full potential by at least 20% there is some real potential HP to be made.
However that is the same as using the scope to check the ignition on the 3350. It works too well when you know what it says and you can't guess at the problems?
Add to all the above some rings just for racing, regrind the cam rings for more tq and you would have a real powerplant with serious HP and reliabilty.
But what do I know about racing?

so did you o/h mike browns engine before or after jeff abbott

[3350nut]

Re: Why no 3350's with P.R.T.'s.?

PRTs weigh 95lbs each. fluid couplings and drives weigh 30 lbs. total recovered horsepower at take-off at 2900 rpm, and 52" map is 450 shp back to the engine. at 3000+ RPMs and 60" MAP +. the PRT would simply fly apart. so to be safer you remove aprox. 400lbs. of weight (PRTs + drives +pipes & clamps & hardware) but ,WHAT DO I KNOW?

[MIKE NIXON]

Re: Why no 3350's with P.R.T.'s.?

If I had a nickle for every time someone said it couldn't be done.......
That and we will still be going 400MPH at Reno.
Lets see, a Merlin will never beat the bearcat, a Griffon will not work, mid '70's
We will never see a 450MPH lap, the 4360 will never survive Reno, early '80's
No new racers: Dago, Strega, Stilleto, Super Corsair, Dreadnaught 3350 powered Sea Fury's
The Bear is unbeatable, the Merlin is done the 90's
No one will break 490
The boiler cooling systems will not work, mid 90's
No one will break 500MPH
It is an interesting list of challenges and they were all beaten!
A Sea Fury pushin 490!
Strega and Dago both going 500+
A Yak pushing 490?
Folks this is the old US of A!
The Home of some great talents and the place that attracts talent like a magnet!
People still risk their lives to get here from all over the world.
Last, regarding the PRT's:
Matt Jackson managed to get that to work well! He also with Pete Law got the boiler cooling system to work on the mustang in the mid 90's
MN