Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

It's called having faith. Until I see an empty tarmac in September I think thiswill work out somehow.

[Ken Adkins]

Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

It's called having faith. Until I see an empty tarmac in September I think thiswill work out somehow.

I truly hope you're right Bill. But like many on the board have stated already, my plans of attending lie, for the most part, on seeing the top unlimited racers rounding the pylons in Sunday's Gold race. If the unlimited field is diminished in quality (and quantity) due to this split, I think many may not attend. For the sake of the 50th (and the future), there has to be a compromise lurking out there......

[supercub]

Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

Sounds a little more promising after listening to the Live Airshow interview with RARA Pres. Who cares if a racer wants to fly at 1000 feet. I haven't seen that many pieces falling off airplanes over the years that would create a hazard to spectators, yes I know there's been a few cases, but rare. If they can't have the unlimiteds this year, because of some unresolved issue.......I'd just as soon them postpone the races for a year, till things get sorted out....because without the unlimiteds, I'm afraid the crowd will be way down, along with the $$$ for RARA.

WE WANT UNLIMITEDSWE WANT UNLIMITEDSWE WANT UNLIMITEDSWE WANT UNLIMITEDS

Brian

[MMPerk]

Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

A quote from RARA...

"National Championship Air Races to debut historic, new racing class for 50th anniversary. In just under twelve hours since the announcement of this new class, the UWRC has secured many of the same pilots who usually compete in the races as part of unlimited racing, including crowd favorites and former champions such as Curt Brown flying “Sawbones”, Tom Richard flying “Precious Metal”, Sherman Smoot flying “Czech Mate”, fan favorite “Voodoo” and John Bagley flying Bob Hoover’s legendary aircraft “Ole Yeller.”"

Several others have also made commitments to be a part of the new class. Also...I don't believe the FAA has made a final decision on the altitude cap...

[supercub]

Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

Voodoo is going to race this year??
Since Tiger is helping with this new class, does that mean Strega will Race?

[al baby]

Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

If you go over 250' the scatter distance increases and the race course is no longer FAA legal. What is more important - the safety of the crowd or the safety of the pilots? We all know how unpredictable an out of control aircraft is when it gains some altitude.

I was going to let this one go, but decided it was just not possible.

Are you SERIOUS!!!??

1) Your question about pilot v crowd safety is so ludicrous I am still shaking my head.

2) And your 2nd statement about out of control a/c isn't much better

Let me explain logically...

For item 1:
(A)Flexibility in maneuver to avoid trouble = (B)less chance of an incident like we saw at PRS

(B)Less chance of an incident = (C) safety for ALL stakeholders

Thus if A=B, and B=C, then A=C

For item 2:
Altitude had zero impact on what happened when 177 crashed. That was solely the result of an incapacitated pilot, in a damaged aircraft being acted upon by standard aero forces given flight control position

In fact, if the a/c had gained less altitude, the result would have been even worse because the aero forces would not have had the time constant necessary to allow it to miss the main stands. Thing how much worse that would have been as compared with where it did impact? Or more frightening would be the result of 177 continuing on a straight path into the pits. Having been standing there adjacent tomhis pit, while watching him roll directly over my head, I count my blessings that I was lucky for a 2nd time. (The first being Brad's L-39 crash)

In conclusion...
An object moving at a high rate of speed, and on a given geometric plane is going to continue on that plane if not acted upon by another force (Sir Isaac, Law #1). Since we all know that gravity is a constant, the only logical conclusion is to prefer that said fast moving object, rounding Pylon 8, would be in a climb or to have sufficient altitude to safely depart the immediate crowd zone minimizing that risk and also hopefully allowing the stick-monkey a chance to bail out as well.

"Altitude is your best friend". (Sir Hoover's Law #1)

[cdtpf60]

Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

i sent a message to thom on facebook last night(au time) and he said they were part of the stand down but was positive that the safety concerns would be resolved and the unlimited's would be there...the odd thing for me now is rara's latest announcement that pm is now part of their new group,i know that things can change fast but it just seem odd to me.

so where does this leave the other racer's..is this the end of the super modified's?...i cant imagine reno without the like of rare bear and strega and the like.

[BillRo]

Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

OK Al, you miss my point. RARA is between a rock (UL pilots who need the freedom to exceed 250') and a hard place (FAA who have to abide by the regulations). The pilots accept the risk of racing but we cannot allow the crowd to be exposed to anything like the same level. The altitude comment was purely to explain why 250' is an issue. I think the solution is to accept the altitude restriction and hope you do not have to break 250' and be forced to argue your way out with the FAA and Contest Committee or get DSQ'd. 177 was a freak incident unrelated to this, and it certainly could have been worse or better depending on timing.

It is unfortunate that there seem to be a few fans who only come to see the top 5 ULs when there are 100+ other pilots who want to race and put on a great show. We all need to support the races to keep them going, even if a few planes are missing, as they are every year

[f1-69]

Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

Thank you Bill as one of those other 100 I appreciate that some people notice us

[Matt Jackson]

Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

I hope the race fans understand that this decision to stand down was not taken lightly. I had the opportunity of a lifetime to fly the fastest plane out there and go for a victory that has eluded me as a race pilot for 25 years. Please don't think for a second I am not committed to safety. If RARA and the FAA resolve our safety concerns the field will be restored. If not, we have apparently outgrown our race venue. Times have changed and the desires of the new majority in this country have changed the rules for the worse in this racers opinion. Our government is one of indecision and lack of common sense. Who would believe that our FAA would be more concerned with a part falling off a plane and going into the crowd (Never happened ,no data available) then a plane running into another on a shrunk down race course that has no room for safe passing? two L39's June 13, 2013 Reno PRS. Go figure!!

[FlyKidChris]

Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

I hope the race fans understand that this decision to stand down was not taken lightly. I had the opportunity of a lifetime to fly the fastest plane out there and go for a victory that has eluded me as a race pilot for 25 years. Please don't think for a second I am not committed to safety. If RARA and the FAA resolve our safety concerns the field will be restored. If not, we have apparently outgrown our race venue. Times have changed and the desires of the new majority in this country have changed the rules for the worse in this racers opinion. Our government is one of indecision and lack of common sense. Who would believe that our FAA would be more concerned with a part falling off a plane and going into the crowd (Never happened ,no data available) then a plane running into another on a shrunk down race course that has no room for safe passing? two L39's June 13, 2013 Reno PRS. Go figure!!

Matt, thanks for posting.

Second, nearest what pylon did the L39 mid-air collision occur?

Finally, have the rules changed from 2012 to this year? Or is there a threat of enforcement regarding the maximum altitude rule (at pylons 8 and 9)?

[Matt Jackson]

Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

Matt, thanks for posting.

Second, nearest what pylon did the L39 mid-air collision occur?

Finally, have the rules changed from 2012 to this year? Or is there a threat of enforcement regarding the maximum altitude rule (at pylons 8 and 9)?

It is not that the rules have changed drastically this year from last. It is that last year after the race our pilots unanimously voted to ask for several necessary changes. One was to demand a new rule allowing for altitude deviation in the interest of safety to be determined by the pilot with no penalty to be assessed by either RARA or the FAA. We asked for a panel of our racers to evaluate any deviations and deal with the deviations within our group. We basically asked to police our own, like Nascar or any other race organization. Our experience with RARA in the past is that they can impose harsh punishment to our racers in the event of violation of any of their rules. We felt that our pilots would be worrying about violating RARA's altitude limits and stop flying their aircraft in a critical situation. I can tell you from experience that things like that concern you, when you should be otherwise focusing on flying the plane.

[Dago Dog]

Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

Well said Matt! The truth finally comes out. Now for the armchair quarterbacks to pipe in.

[Lockheed Bob]

Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

Not a pilot but after attending Air Races/Airshows for at least 70 years I agree with Matt Jackson as the pilots safety should be first. We don't need "restrictor plate" type of racing knowing that it is just an accident waiting to happen.Thats why it is called "Unlimited" & if you can't run with the big "Dogs" stay under the porch.Just MHOP.

[lowpasskid]

Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

forgive me for being stupid, but how does the new class change things?