Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

[Desertdawg]

Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

Well heres my 2 cents worth, from a fan perspective.

There are a lot of events that I miss during the September air race weekend do to the fact I truly enjoy what RARA puts on.

However I have to admit, seeing and hearing the unlimiteds is 70% of the reason for going.

This year with the 50th our group has designed a special little 50th Anniversary keepsake we were planning on handing out, cost will be $450.00 (glad we waited before consigning order to vendor). I had planned on taking the entire week off and buying the season seat and pit passes (here too glad I have waited to purchase).

The reality is that if there are no warbirds, then I will save my vacation, work and attend a event I have long waited to see

http://www.sscc.us/

Hopefully things get ironed out here real soon before people start making different plans and commitments.

[flyingjibus]

Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

Last, is anyone else surprised that Tiger agreed to participate as the new class president? I know that I am very likely forming an opinion about that with less than 5% of the information, but it just seemed like a strange fit.

I was at first, but after thinking about it...

Tiger was effectively done, and putting Strega out to pasture. Money and the chance for someone very deserving of a win to get one convinced him to let her out to play once more. We are in the final years of seeing modified WWII era piston planes going 500 mph, and Tiger knows it. This move allows real racing to fade out with Strega as the undisputed king of the ring, wile preserving an event that pays homage to the glory days that he was part of. What better person is there to preside over that? He has the knowledge and experience to be an asset to this new exhibition race, and it will also allow him to continue to be relevant in the "Sport"

I dont mean this to sound as harsh as it may. I respect Tiger immensely, but pilots have ego's , it part of the deal. This feeds his nicely.

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

I think when it all comes down to it and people chill a little ON ALL SIDES it will all work out and we will continue to race.

[Hans Oberev]

Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

I get into it pretty heavy with my lawyer "brother-in-law". He is not a racer, doesn't get racing..never will but he understands how the courtroom works. Very dangerous! He thinks you should be able to take your family out to the races and not expect a plane to fall into your lap! What he doesn't understand is racing is dangerous. It says "Experimental" inside the cockpit for a reason! As members of the racing community we understand and accept these risks. I support the stand down 100%. Lawyers, insurance companies, promoters and gov't agencies should not be controlling decisions behind the cockpit in racing conditions! We live in a "gamer" society where the only risk is losing electricity. Long live motocross and big mtn free skiing where you make the decisions and deal with the consequences! Hope we see real unlimited racing this Sept., not limited unlimited parade lap exhibition style racing.

[Idaho_cowpony]

Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

I think when it all comes down to it and people chill a little ON ALL SIDES it will all work out and we will continue to race.

Pretty sure Wild Bill is correct here...

If we can overcome '11, we can overcome PRS '13

- Joseph

[LoveOldPlanes]

Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

Hope we see real unlimited racing this Sept., not limited unlimited parade lap exhibition style racing.

What have you got against NASCAR????

[knot4u]

Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

This whole debacle is depressing.

[GRNDP51]

Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

Pretty sure Wild Bill is correct here...

If we can overcome '11, we can overcome PRS '13

- Joseph

Perfectly stated. Thanks for that.

[flyingjibus]

Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

Well I certainly hope so. I really am holding out that it will be worked out in the end.

If the races are going to end, I want it to be on a Sunday in Stead, NV, The last race will just have run and while I stand amongst the smell of sage, race fuel and burnt oil we can say goodbye after having a proper shag. Screw this long distance break up crap.

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

Pretty sure Wild Bill is correct here...

If we can overcome '11, we can overcome PRS '13

- Joseph

I treat NCAR like good sex since 2011. Never know if I'm getting it again... Do my best as if it is really is the last time. If it's not treat the next time like it's the last.

[Skymonster]

Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

Well clearly I'm not a party to all the talk that's gone on (and hopefully is still going on) behind the scenes, but it seems like a tricky situation to me. From reading all of this thread and from a layman's (OK, race fan's) point of view, I can't help wondering how easy (difficult) this will be to sort out...

• The FAA has supposedly (presumably) done the trajectory math and are asserting that flying anything above 250' at Unlimited Gold type speeds increases the risk of bits ending up in the grandstands or pits... Despite the laudable concept "keep the pilots safe and crowd will be safe", does that really totally cover for something falling off a plane or a structural failure?
  
• Understandably the pilots want the option to be able to fly at more than 250' (or at least don't want to be black flagged if they do go over 250'), but maybe the Feds are sticking to their guns because they've crunched some numbers and really do believe anything higher increases the risks of exposing the crowd to debris?
  
• I'm sure RARA want a safe race with the most possible Unlimiteds on the ramp come September, but maybe even more RARA needs a "race". And whatever we race fans think about the other classes, its the Unlimited's that pull a good number of the guys in the street and puts the dollars in the registers. If RARA side 100% with the pilots and the Feds dig their heels in, then there's no Unlimiteds at all and maybe the gate receipts will be well down, possibly even so far down it'd kill the whole event. So RARA set up this new class, which may well end up being an exhibition race rather than being truly competitive, but attracts the casual punters at least for one more year...
  
• But now this issue is at least partly out in the open, if a full Unlimited class race goes ahead and they allow flying above 250', what sort of law suits will be filed should [God forbid] anything go wrong and something goes into the crowd - I suspect the 2011 suits would pale in comparison. If the racing goes ahead below the 250' and there's still an accident that affects the crowd, RARA have covered their asses to some extent if it's the Feds that are insisting on 250' - the pilot's not participating could say we told you it'd be a problem, but RARA still have the Feds to blame...
  
• If the new class does turn out to be some sort of safe exhibition event, the crowds and race fans will wise to it sooner or later - they're not that stupid. But by then RARA will have gotten another year or two out of racing including the 50th, and as someone else said above the future for Unlimited racing in warbirds is arguably limited anyway. If the new class does turn out to be a failure after the first year, RARA can say that they tried but it just didn't work and retire the class (and maybe the entire races) gracefully - from their point of view at least
  

I want it all to be sorted out and for normality to be restored, and I hope it's all sorted out and normality is restored in time to get a full field to the start line in September. But...

Andy

[Randy Haskin]

Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

What are the arguments against moving the spectators to the inside of the course?

[ChrisMX105]

Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

Cant see the whole course from the inside. Not to mention the logistics of getting them there. Unfortunately the fact is that you can only control the tech inspections and pilot training. If the GG accident had started 50 feet lower it would have ended in the stands. 100 feet higher might have been no spectator casualties. By making changes to prevent a duplicate of that specific accident they are increasing the chances of another. To my knowledge there was never any concern or issue with the much more stringent and thorough tech inspections.why? Because it made sense. This whole altitude /corridor doesn't do anything but increase the chance of what they want to avoid. I support the pilots decision completely, it is their ass in the seat.

[AcroGimp]

Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

What are the arguments against moving the spectators to the inside of the course?

As I understand it, current training and procedure on a mayday is to pull up and inside the course to hopefully open up any runway for emergency/precautionary landings, if the crowd was in the infield, this would have to change presumably to up and out instead, and pilots would have to completely change their thinking and trained reaction - might also limit safe landing possibilites as a result.

'Gimp

[f1-69]

Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

In and up is the mayday, not to mention that there are four other courses other than unlimited , no biggie no one watches those other classes anyway