Strega and Voodoo??

[MIKE NIXON]

Re: Strega and Voodoo??

Re the last post:
And I thought it was a bad Flux-Capacitor. Jack has new springs available.
Strega vs Stiletto projections:
They are close to equal with the difference being the engine mods vs the cooling mods.
Putting the current engine in Stiletto would give us the mid 520'sMPH.
Converting Strega to a boiler cooling would add 15MPH to our secret top speed.
I finished the repair of Stiletto's engine Sunday eve the week of Reno 199? so I know what we had for the set up.
Pete Law, Bruce Boland and I aquired a lot of data over the years and their numbers tracked within 1/2%.
We have been preaching the boiler system since we build Dago in '81/'82 and it may find favor one of these days. Running the cooling door in the tightest possible with max spray bar water works. However a higher air exit temp = more thrust but higher engine temps. The net drag of the scoop at 500MPH is good for -15MPH compared to the clean effect of the boiler system. Leeward got to see my note-books on all this in '83 when we were working together. The change is very expensive job and takes a lot of testing to make it work. Matt, Pete and I have a few notes on all this, but I don't see it happening again due to the cost. Now if #5 was really planning to kick you know what it would make for a long year till 2014.
MN

[RichH]

Re: Strega and Voodoo??

Re the last post:
The net drag of the scoop at 500MPH is good for -15MPH compared to the clean effect of the boiler system. Leeward got to see my note-books on all this in '83 when we were working together. The change is very expensive job and takes a lot of testing to make it work. Matt, Pete and I have a few notes on all this, but I don't see it happening again due to the cost.

It's unfortunate. But besides the cost issue, with the fragile state of the sport and all the added scrutiny... I can't imagine why anyone in their right mind would would want to show up with any mods even remotely resembling GG's setup. Makes for great discussion, but I just don't see it happening... :/

[kiwiracefan]

Re: Strega and Voodoo??

It's unfortunate. But besides the cost issue, with the fragile state of the sport and all the added scrutiny... I can't imagine why anyone in their right mind would would want to show up with any mods even remotely resembling GG's setup. Makes for great discussion, but I just don't see it happening... :/

The boiler wasnt the problem with the ghost, there were other factors there. Back in the day stilletto proved the concept of the boiler system. If i recall rightly when th3 team put the turtle deck back on voodoo they were also going to do a boiloff program as well

[RichH]

Re: Strega and Voodoo??

The boiler wasnt the problem with the ghost,

Precisely. Yes we all know that...

[MARK SHANE]

Re: Strega and Voodoo??

[QUOTE=kiwiracefan;111640]The boiler wasnt the problem with the ghost, there were other factors there. Back in the day stilletto proved the concept of the boiler system. If i recall rightly when th3 team put the turtle deck back on voodoo they were also going to do a boiloff program as well[/QUOTE Yeah but I thought Stiletto ran the cooling set up where the radiators are in the wing like Anson Johnsons Mustang, Johnson took two P39 coolers and put them where the .50 cals used to be in the wings, that way he could lose the radiator air scoop underneath the fuselage, I am not sure but I don't think Stiletto was ever boil off.

[Matt Jackson]

Re: Strega and Voodoo??

This is some funny ****!!! Everyone needs to come out for this one. Stevo is fine tuning Voodoo and I am certain there will be a spectacular race if we are both running come Sunday. You will have to buy a ticket though to see it for yourselves. I would be willing to say that weight won't prove to be the difference however. Steve is a big and tall and I am a short fat guy, what could be better? Just for the record, I went on a high protein diet 5 weeks ago. No Diet cokes, low sodium and no bread either. I am 27 lbs down headed for 50, so we won't have to enlarge the canopy or pry the longerons apart as one of you comedians mentioned in an earlier post. I assure you I will fit just fine. They don't call me the G monster for nothing !!!!

MJ

[RichH]

Re: Strega and Voodoo??

I am not sure but I don't think Stiletto was ever boil off.

Yes it was... Stiletto went boil-off later on.

[kiwiracefan]

Re: Strega and Voodoo??

Yeah but I thought Stiletto ran the cooling set up where the radiators are in the wing like Anson Johnsons Mustang, Johnson took two P39 coolers and put them where the .50 cals used to be in the wings, that way he could lose the radiator air scoop underneath the fuselage, I am not sure but I don't think Stiletto was ever boil off.

Im sure Matt Jackson or others who were involved can help out, but im pretty sure originally Stiletto had the radiators in the gun bays, but they swapped the system out for the boil off later.

[t-dub]

Re: Strega and Voodoo??

Im sure Matt Jackson or others who were involved can help out, but im pretty sure originally Stiletto had the radiators in the gun bays, but they swapped the system out for the boil off later.

Exactly. I'm pretty sure that Matt (and others) did the boil-off system (and the wing and tip mods) and Scott Sherman ran the plane more or less in Preston's original configuration.

[Big_Jim]

Re: Strega and Voodoo??

Preston 'sold' Stiletto to Sherman Aircraft Sales after the 'disagreement' between AP and Big Z at Reno '86. I'm not so sure he sold it to Sherman, so much as Sherman took it on consignment and part of the agreement was that they could race it to 'showcase' it. That was the impression I got from Scott at least.

In 1989, as Preston got involved with David Price's Museum of Flying, they either bought or took back Stiletto and moved it out to Santa Monica. I can remember them making the boil-off modification and wingtip 'restoration' in 1989--I don't know if Matt J helped with the mods or not. I know that when both Dago and Stiletto were up on the block for the great Santa Monica Auction in May 1990 and it already had the mods in place. And as I recall, Price was more interested in concentrating on racing and modifying Dago as opposed to Stiletto....so it just kind of sat there in the Museum.

And I'm sure Matt J can chime in, but I think he 'leased' it from Price to run at Reno in '92.

[Matt Jackson]

Re: Strega and Voodoo??

Preston 'sold' Stiletto to Sherman Aircraft Sales after the 'disagreement' between AP and Big Z at Reno '86. I'm not so sure he sold it to Sherman, so much as Sherman took it on consignment and part of the agreement was that they could race it to 'showcase' it. That was the impression I got from Scott at least.

In 1989, as Preston got involved with David Price's Museum of Flying, they either bought or took back Stiletto and moved it out to Santa Monica. I can remember them making the boil-off modification and wingtip 'restoration' in 1989--I don't know if Matt J helped with the mods or not. I know that when both Dago and Stiletto were up on the block for the great Santa Monica Auction in May 1990 and it already had the mods in place. And as I recall, Price was more interested in concentrating on racing and modifying Dago as opposed to Stiletto....so it just kind of sat there in the Museum.

And I'm sure Matt J can chime in, but I think he 'leased' it from Price to run at Reno in '92.

So here is the actual history of Stiletto and the real facts. The plane was the brainstorm of Dennis Shoenfelder and Dave Zeuschel. It came about after Wiley Sanders sold Jennie aka Miss Candice/ Galloping Ghost to Jimmie in 1983. Stiletto was conceived and built in 51/2 months. Bob Carr built the fuselage, Phill Greenberg built the wing which was completed by Art & Dave Teeters in Salinas CA. The plane was assembled by Pete Regina, Matt Jackson, Rick Shanholtzer, Les Crowder. It was literally assembled outside under a tent in San Fernando at Dave Zeuschel's shop, my idea by the way.. Pete and I along with Dennis Schoenfelder worked around the clock to get the plane to Reno. It arrived at Reno with the same wing clip as the Ghost had, because Bob Carr had at the request of Skip Holm's chopped the wing on Jennie. This by the way angered Wiley Sander's who then made the decision to sell plane to Jimmy as we never asked Wiley to chop the wing. Stiletto was designed with wing radiators. Dennis Schoenfelder along with his Dad Bud took two stock radiators apart using the large section of each and placed these larger core sections into each wing. We had a H model heat exchanger in the
tail, I mounted that there myself under the direction of Bob Carr. The plane came out of the box number 1 and left Reno with a trophy and the race record. The next year was filled with issues, basically over money. The engine blew at Bakersfield while leading Strega. Reno 85 had us with a gear issue on take-off where Skip could not get the gear up. It was a contaminated hyd system screwing up the sequence valve. {Plane showed up 1986 ready to rock and was leading the race when a rocker arm broke putting Skip out once again. Preston then made a deal with the Sherman's and the plane was raced the following year by them with no luck. I am not sure if the Sherman's actually owned Stiletto or not, maybe they can chime in on that fact. The Museum crew under the direction of Bruce Lockwood, John Swancarra and Freddie Wright decided to design a boil off system. Robby Grove put the wings back to the standard clip with composite tip and aileron. They took the wing radiators out and placed them in a tank located forward of the pilot. Great installation by the way Bruce. The pilot actually sat near what would be the rear jump seat. The problem came when under the money restraints and time they abandoned the project in favor of developing Dago another recent purchase. I leased and picked the plane up in April of 1992 and towed it via Sepulveda BLVD. to my Van Nuys Shop. With the help of Pete Law I revamped the troubled boiler system with the installation of a two float system that my friend Jim Feick designed. We also removed the heat exchanger in the tail and placed a stock oil cooler behind the pilot in a boil tank. The heads and banks had been burned up in testing by the museum on the malfunctioning boil system. So Mike Nixon replaced the heads an banks and I was off to Reno 1992. I flew the aircraft 45 days after towing the plane to Van Nuys. David Price and Alan Preston flew on both wings during the first test flight. David Price later told me that he was throughly impressed with our progress. I left for Reno 1992 and stopped in Bishop CA. to check fluid levels as we were still trying to determining boil rates. On take-off the ADI-pump failed at gear retraction and the engine blew its guts out. I managed to perform a left 270 and land back across the runway with no damage. Mike Nixon picked the engine up and returned it two days later. I appeared at Reno and finished 4th with an airplane that could have easily won that year. I averaged 424 mph on 80 inches. I lost the adi system on the start and ran the entire race with no ADI. David Price said to me at the dinner Sunday night that he had backed the wrong plane meaning Dago and that he would provide full sponsorship the next year for me. My dream of having the fastest Unlimited to race was now a reality. Unfortunately the plan never materialized because of jealously by certain people I will not name and the plane sat the next year out in Mojave where I had stored the plane. Alan Preston had a deal to sell the plane to Bill Rhineschild and race it the next year, in fact Bill entered the plane and it can be seen in the program as being raced by Bill Rhineschild, but that deal also fell apart. The plane was alter taken apart and built by Pete Regina into what is now Diamondback a two place. The boiler cores along with wing fairings and other parts went to Jimmie Leeward on a secret deal and there you have the history of Stiletto. Had the plane been sponsored properly it would have easily been the fastest on the course today, but as the old saying goes, if my aunt had balls she would be my uncle. We obviously will never know.

MJ

[V1670]

Re: Strega and Voodoo??

Thanks,Matt...........good to get the straight scoop (sorry) on Stilleto from those in the know. Just LOVE the history of the sport. Good Luck come Sept.

[t-dub]

Re: Strega and Voodoo??

Thanks,Matt...........good to get the straight scoop (sorry) on Stilleto from those in the know. Just LOVE the history of the sport. Good Luck come Sept.

+1 Thanks

[RAD2LTR]

Re: Strega and Voodoo??

My original comments/thoughts on pilot weight perhaps being a factor between winning and finishing 2nd actually came about from a current dilemma that I've run into autocrossing my car. I've finished 2nd to a guy in a Datsun 510 every race this year. The two of us are WAY faster (like 3 seconds on a 60 second course) than the rest of the field. He is consistently about 3/4 of a second faster than I am and I can't for the life of me figure out why. I started thinking about weight and the fact that a passenger adds 1 second to my times, and it doesn't seem to matter if its a 100lb passenger or a 200 lb passenger (or somewhere in the middle) Its always at least a second, but no more than 1.25 seconds. I got to thinking there was no legal way I could lose 100+ lbs from the car. That got me thinking about pilot weight, mostly because I stood next to Steve last year and I'll bet he weighs less than 180lbs. I'd also guess Will Whiteside is at least 200 (I'm just guessing, I could be way off) Since both Voodoo and Strega are very similar, I started thinking perhaps it was a weight difference between the two that had Voodoo just a little slower since everything else is not identical, but very similar, with likely a very similar power output between the two.
That triggered my thoughts on Stiletto and the fact that it did do so well and the fact that it was very light (and with no scoop, very clean). 425 mph 20 years ago was moving right along, as evidenced by the 4th place finish. The fact that it did 425 at a low power setting says a lot. Granted, it was likely due to both being light and very clean. I can only wonder what 20 years of improvements could have produced. Without a doubt the concept was proven and it worked very well. Imagine what could have been. A healthy Stiletto could very well have dominated in the way that both Rare Bear and Strega did throughout those years and perhaps with a little luck, been the most winning unlimited ever totally changing the game. Obviously, if you can't beat someone, you innovate to find the speed. If one scoopless Mustang is the frontrunner (potentially in the way Strega has) all the others will be looking to do something similar because if it works for one, it will likely work for another. Obviously I'm speculating here, but had things gone differently, all the front running Mustangs might be scoopless now.

Back to the weight issue, obviously a lighter aircraft will accelerate faster because there is less mass. It should also turn better perhaps with less loss of speed. Faster through the corner means faster onto the straight (granted, there isn't much in the way of a straight line now.) I guess the question is, how much of a weight difference results in a difference out on the course? Obviously, a Sea Fury is the heaviest thing out there, but they are clean and have lots of power. Rare Bear isn't really light, but again, brute force; it is afterall the fastest piston engined aircraft in the world. Then we have Czech Mate, lightweight,a little draggy with the radial engine up front, with lots of power, but less than RB or a Sea Fury, but if it can do 480 ish, they are doing something right. Then we get to Strega and Voodoo. I'll guess they are quite a bit lighter than all the radial engined racers aside from perhaps C.M. They are also the most aerodynamically clean. P.M is a little bit of a curve ball however. Its got more power than a Merlin, but also more weight and I'd have to guess a little more drag over Voodoo or Strega. Still, if they were able to do 460+ with little more than a propeller blade design change, on an older and to my knowledge more or less stock motor, who knows what they'll have this year with all the aerodynamic cleanup work they have done, not to mention a fresh motor. I'm not going to say PM is going to up and run away from the current front runners, but they will be putting lots of pressure on the front group of 4. ( I think it might come down to a war of attrition amongst the front 5 or so. I can't put C.M in the picture because as of now, it hasn't flown.) I think the win could go to any one of the 5 front runners. Will it be brute force, aerodynamic superiority, or something in between?

Disclaimer, I'm speculating and generalizing quite a bit in this post. There are lots of facts/ factors that I don't know.

Will

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Strega and Voodoo??

Does anyone need any help pulling their colletive feet out of their mouths/asses here with this frickin' weight issue?

Does this computer make my ass look big?

This s h i t gets way more personal than I'd ever like to see it go..

Glad to see there are still folks who will hang their asses out, financially and... more personally, their ASSES... to keep this sport going..

Crew to Crew gaffaws aside... Race crew can throw chit at each other here.. crew to crew, to pilot to crew to crew to pilot..

And, then, that ends it...

I'm kind of appalled here really.. Matt... sorry, if it makes any difference to you, I'm already voting for Christie in.. what to hell will it be .. 2016??

I'm very happy to see that your program is back on track!

Go Strega!!