Rare Bear September Fury

[Matt Jackson]

Re: Rare Bear September Fury

Hey John, Noticed your comments about scoop. Dave Mentioned the other day that the inlets basically swallowed the air near the large root making the wing think it was thinner at the root. His concern was the air flow now would go super sonic because of the thickness ratio at that large root.. On the other side of the coin is Daryl Greenamyers comment on the matter that said he had no adverse effects by having the root inlets covered ala Conquest I. He said it just went faster not having the cooling drag of the oil cooler. The photo's from his 1971 race shows a rather clean looking aircraft that domniated again that year. Of course it was not at the speeds we now see for sure. His carb scoop however was under the stock cowling and was taken through the front cowling inlet. The scoop might prove to be distablizing as well, sticking up in the air stream like that. Time and testing will tell. I can't imagine the plane being any slicker then it was last year. Skip said he had never gone faster in a propeller driven airplane. That was also my take back in 1999 when I flew the plane. It was something to be hold!!! We will surely see come September. Nelson and his guys are more than capable however, so I won't second guess their efforts at this point.

MJ

[John]

Re: Rare Bear September Fury

I can't imagine the plane being any slicker then it was last year. Skip said he had never gone faster in a propeller driven airplane. That was also my take back in 1999 when I flew the plane. It was something to be hold!!!

MJ

...that could be officially referred to as: BearFast!

[knot4u]

Re: Rare Bear September Fury

Back when I worked on it (early 90's to around 2000) we were always down on power. I won't speculate why but I will say that we had a crew meeting in the trailer one morning and Greg told us that the lap speeds we were running at the power being produced were a big improvement over prior laps based on previous lap speed/power settings. He said it was probably due to attention to drag reduction. We worked pretty hard on that stuff (and everything else) but I still wonder if the qualifying records we set weren't a combination of our work and John Penney getting more comfortable racing the airplane.

[Idaho_cowpony]

Re: Rare Bear September Fury

I think we should just say it... 3 blade

[knot4u]

Re: Rare Bear September Fury

I think we should just say it... 3 blade

A classic sound that sadly probably wont be duplicated. If you heard/felt it when at full power consider yourself lucky, I never did. Heard it trying to at be full power and that was pretty impressive, kinda started in your shoes and wasn't over till your ears heard just the exhaust of a 3350 going away. Yes, I miss that airplane.

[Samuel]

Re: Rare Bear September Fury

Are the wing intakes gone? Or is that just me.

[Big_Jim]

Re: Rare Bear September Fury

Are the wing intakes gone? Or is that just me.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]19796[/ATTACH]

Can't really tell from the picture but my guess is it just has the wing ramps on, which cover the intakes.

[jetwaste]

Re: Rare Bear September Fury

If they did it, good bye MP. Grumman tested and proved a system. Wings are fat now, intake? NACA shows what is proven. Dave had this down, he showed my why and where the info was. Did they pull this from a guess on what some think needs to be done because of "looks like it will work"? Slide Rules Rocked back in the day and even got us to the Moon and SR71. Take the system now an put a laser to it! You Get real numbers. We did what we said with what we had and when we did it. The system works but when you call pilots and they have lawns to take care and feelings that get hurt then you end up with speed gone and a plane that was for not. Bitter? Yes because now the Bear has taken a step back past what it even was in 1946. This is all dependent on if they are doing what is speculated.

[Samuel]

Re: Rare Bear September Fury

Can't really tell from the picture but my guess is it just has the wing ramps on, which cover the intakes.

Could just be the wing ramps but it also appears there is a lot of paint missing

[ChrisMX105]

Re: Rare Bear September Fury

Wing root intakes are gone.

[Idaho_cowpony]

Re: Rare Bear September Fury

If they did it, good bye MP. Grumman tested and proved a system. Wings are fat now, intake? NACA shows what is proven. Dave had this down, he showed my why and where the info was. Did they pull this from a guess on what some think needs to be done because of "looks like it will work"? Slide Rules Rocked back in the day and even got us to the Moon and SR71. Take the system now an put a laser to it! You Get real numbers. We did what we said with what we had and when we did it. The system works but when you call pilots and they have lawns to take care and feelings that get hurt then you end up with speed gone and a plane that was for not. Bitter? Yes because now the Bear has taken a step back past what it even was in 1946. This is all dependent on if they are doing what is speculated.

Interesting comments.....

I can't help but think ?Cleland?....

Time will tell....but for the time being, looks like they is gone...

- Joseph

[knot4u]

Re: Rare Bear September Fury

That's just sad. No more snooters. No more 3-blade. Not the same Rare Bear. Sorry.

[t-dub]

Re: Rare Bear September Fury

That's just sad. No more snooters. No more 3-blade. Not the same Rare Bear. Sorry.

Rare Bear will always be Rare Bear. The 3-blade has been gone for over 10 years. Look how others (Strega, Voodoo, PM, Czech Mate) have evolved over the years. Scoops change, wing tips and tails change, props change etc. but they'll always be who they are. This is just another chapter in Bears life. The question is, will it be a good one, or a grim one. We will all find out soon! Anticipation is building!

[Idaho_cowpony]

Re: Rare Bear September Fury

Rare Bear will always be Rare Bear. The 3-blade has been gone for over 10 years. Look how others (Strega, Voodoo, PM, Czech Mate) have evolved over the years. Scoops change, wing tips and tails change, props change etc. but they'll always be who they are. This is just another chapter in Bears life. The question is, will it be a good one, or a grim one. We will all find out soon! Anticipation is building!

Agreed! Bring it on!

[RichH]

Re: Rare Bear September Fury

If they did it, good bye MP. Grumman tested and proved a system.

Well, remember though that the F8F was originally designed to include the R2800-30W which utilized updraft carburetion and better optimised the wing-root intake setup. So you can't really say that the induction system employed prior to this (assuming it really has been changed) on the Bear was entirely Grumman tested and approved.

Some ram-air effect is undoubtedly lost in getting the air up and around for the downdraft setup on the 3350, so you would think an over-the-top induction would improve things with regards to ram rise and manifold pressure. But, as discussed here... closing up the wing roots may be a whole 'nother issue.