New frontier

[Propellerhead]

Re: New frontier

I think the Jet Class would be more interesting if it was changed to the Afterburner Class.

I'm not so sure the Smoking Hole Class is much more interesting.

The jets are iffy enough already.

[t-dub]

Re: New frontier

I have no disgust of turboprops. As I said, I have LOTS of hours in my logbook in everything from PT-6's through T-56's. They are great engines, and I'll fly around behind them all day. Just not in a race plane.

First off, a turboprop plane does not have the noise factors that a piston powered plane does. The sound and the feel are what are the draws of the Warbirds in the Unlimited Class. If that's a sound I wanted to hear I could go down to the airport and watch Cessna Caravan's take off and land all day.

But more important, as we found out first hand in the hydroplanes, what controls the horsepower limits of the tubroprops is the fuel control. You can twist that fuel control up and up and up all day until you literally melt the engine. How fast do you want to go and how bad do you want to win? It will just keep on running hotter and hotter until the hot section explodes. And if you've never seen a turbine engine hot section go, it's not like throwing a rod through the side of a Merlin...it sends sharp turbine blades out the case in a 360 degree arc at a very high rate of speed and tears itself apart. We almost killed a few people in the '90's when wheels and blades went up on the beach. More than one boat has almost been cut in half by a hot section going off. In the boats we ended up having to put kevlar 'girdles' around the hot section.

The boats started going through turbine engines faster than they ever went through Merlins and Allisons, because there were no limits on them, and the teams just kept turning the fuel control up and spinning that turbine at 110%, 120%, 130%....how much fuel can you dump in there before it melts? So to counter that, they started putting fuel flow and N2 limits on the turbines. Can't spin it past a certain N2, can't flow more than (I think the number now is) 4.1 GPM. Now it's not "Unlimited" anymore. It's "restricted" racing. And of course, the guys with the money devised ways to trick the flow-meters, devised computer programs that had topping governors that would allow it to spin to 130% for 2.999 seconds and then close, so that at the 3 second mark (which was the magic number) the N2 and fuel-flow would be within limits.

So now you're resorting to cheating to get around the rules that were put in place as safety measures in the first place.

How bad to you want to win? Want to go racing with restrictions? Run NASCAR or something.

Oh, and when the boats switched over from piston motors to turbines, the fan base disappeared. Even at the stalwart races on the circuit today, more people show up to watch the Blue Angels than to watch the boats race...and then leave after the airshow part is over. We used to get 500,000 people on the beach easy in Seattle on race day. Now, lucky if you have even a quarter of that. The noise goes, so do the fans.

Just my opinion....but there is nothing appealing about racing a turbine to me. The novelty wears of REALLY quick.

+1......

[jarrodeu]

Re: New frontier

Thanks for the very informative post Big Jim.

Jarrod

[boomtown]

Re: New frontier

"Oh, and when the boats switched over from piston motors to turbines, the fan base disappeared. Even at the stalwart races on the circuit today, more people show up to watch the Blue Angels than to watch the boats race...and then leave after the airshow part is over. We used to get 500,000 people on the beach easy in Seattle on race day. Now, lucky if you have even a quarter of that. The noise goes, so do the fans."


Funny......I've seen that happen at Reno since my first air race. I prefer the Patriots......Flame away

[John]

Re: New frontier

I'm not familiar with that one - can you describe it, please?

...the best way to describe it is as a cross between the Rutan Boomerang and a P-82 twin Mustang -with the outer wing panels swept back instead of forward(as on the Boomerang). I can't seem to find a concept drawing of it on the internet.
My limited knowledge of it is from a National Free Flight Society(NFFS) model airplane publication(no less).

[J.A.W.]

Re: New frontier

Have to agree on turbo-shafts lacking ambience/soul etc..

We have some pretty exciting off-shore power-boat racing over here & the howling wail of a brace of WFO
8ltr V12 race-Lambos' vs pumped up big-block Mercruiser V8s mixed in with shrieking super-hi-po V8 2-stroke outboards
..has turbo-shafts beat.. hell, even a smoky ol`Detroit Diesel beats 'em for sound quality..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF9uR-LOT04 ..Lambo V12s workin'.. esp' 30secs in..

Or, a different kind of racing with a British V12, go to ~1:30 in for that rich bass-baritone howl rising..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9I7GWllPFY

Not sayin' I wouldn't want to see a hi-speed, low pass, fly-by, pair-up - with a Tu-95 & XF-84H, though..

[J.A.W.]

Re: New frontier

The sound of Detroit Diesel power.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqntIr2cKk4

& those big Lambo V12s.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp9FU8KwKS0