P 38 Race limitations.

[J.A.W.]

No gold racing Lightnings ..
Is the P-38 speed problem a low Mach limit [~0.65 = 440mph @ Reno height]..
Or an Allison issue [ any winning Allison powered Mustangs] ?
Or that 'n' more?

[Idaho_cowpony]

Re: P 38 Race limitations.

Simply never been tried at Reno.

[J.A.W.]

Re: P 38 Race limitations.

What was that Clint Eastwood 'Dirty Harry' quote?
..something about the ability to recognise limitations?

Wonder if one of those long-nose [Allison powered] Fw 190 reps will get a run?

[thunderstangfan]

Re: P 38 Race limitations.

too much intersection drag...

[stuntflyr]

Re: P 38 Race limitations.

I remember clocking Levitz at 340 at two of the 1000 mile races but they couldn't keep the pace. I never knew the reason but it probably was heat and fuel consumption.
I seem to remember some 360 mph laps in the early 70's from Levitz, but I think that's all one can expect considering that was what LeVier was able to produce with much newer equipment. Just a thought.
Chris...

[J.A.W.]

Re: P 38 Race limitations.

Thanks for the recall, man. Those speeds were 'bout it - for a new one - at those heights, back in the big show..

[Leo]

Re: P 38 Race limitations.

For all it's advances and Gee Whiz at the time it was much older technology and design theory compared to the Mustang, Sea fury, Bearcat, etc. A lot was learned in the few years between the designs.
I wonder, if you could actually get the power to go fast, would the Lightning get to compressibility at current course speeds? I know it hit the effects at relatively lower speeds than the later aircraft.

[LoveOldPlanes]

Re: P 38 Race limitations.

For all it's advances and Gee Whiz at the time it was much older technology and design theory compared to the Mustang, Sea fury, Bearcat, etc. A lot was learned in the few years between the designs.
I wonder, if you could actually get the power to go fast, would the Lightning get to compressibility at current course speeds? I know it hit the effects at relatively lower speeds than the later aircraft.

So much for my Griffon-Powered Lightening idea......

[Leo]

Re: P 38 Race limitations.

Don't know how much faster it would be, but sure would be a noisy SOB.
Imagine the PM setupx2...

[stuntflyr]

Re: P 38 Race limitations.

Leo,
Yes, probably would. It was aerodynamically a much older design than the Thunderbolt and Mustang. It was much more complex than the other fighters, too. Many complex systems cut their teeth on it, an early one compared to a later one is dramatic in itself.
The airplane would've done well with a Janitrol heater running on gas and a waste gate system with electronic controls but they didn't have that stuff back then. It was the reason, in some ways, that those things come into being. It's tough being the first guy to go fast and high. It's all new and in the case of the P-38 had a thick wing with a forward high point, turbos with little to control them and constant speed props that were a new invention. One must consider the time period and all that development that went forward from '40 to '45.
Chris...

[Leo]

Re: P 38 Race limitations.

Exactly my point. Put it into context with it's true contemporary's, the P-40, P-39, it was VERY advanced. But then it was designed for a very tough and specific specification. By the time they got to the L model it was a magnificent machine, but it's performance had been surpassed by the next generation.

[Big_Jim]

Re: P 38 Race limitations.

Remember guys, they have tried the modified P-38 racer before.

Long before it was White Lightnin', J.D. Reed dumped a LOT of money into N25Y as the 1947 Sky Ranger. Clipped wings, removed superchargers, extended intake ducting, short stacks out the side of the nacelles. A very serious effort...for not a lot of return.

http://s1337.photobucket.com/user/Mark_Allen_M3/media/1947FastestP-38everhit440MPHonthestraightslowlevelduringpracticeforqualifyingfortheThompsonTrophyRace_zps8aa47940.jpg.html

[Leo]

Re: P 38 Race limitations.

Removing the turbo's allowed them to get rid of the intercooler and the chin and go back to the early model cowl.
I don't think they got much out of it all though.

[Idaho_cowpony]

Re: P 38 Race limitations.

An all-out race built P-38 would be a spectacle for sure. Perhaps some new fairings, G6 Allisons, boil-off, canopy, weight reduction, and prop work. Maybe then we'd see the mid 400 range, which would be 'Gold'.

A better starting platform, for a lot less $$, would be the Tigercat.

- Joseph

[thunderstangfan]

Re: P 38 Race limitations.

a better starting point, would be to start from scratch...