Oil Clean up

[Peashooter]

What does the Bear crew use to clean up the oil mess after each flight? And, why don't the Sea Furies seem to get spooged with oil? Is there a "Clean Kit" a la R-1830 for the 3350?

[Sailing South]

We have tried to use several things in the past, but nothing seems to work as well as 409. We use lots of 409.

Scott LItster
Bear Tech

[Reever]

"Formula 409"

"Formula 409" Now that would be a great sponsor for the Bear!

[Peashooter]

OK, thanks. When it's clean, it glistens! Peas

[Unregistered]

And, why don't the Sea Furies seem to get spooged with oil?

When you have a tight engine they don't get "spooged"

[Derrek]

I have also heard, and maybe someone from the Bear camp can confirm this, that the Bear engine has a modification that either removes the oil control ring or a spring that is behind it in order to reduce the friction inside the engine. I heard that it was worth 500 hp but increases the oil consumption to HIGH. Like I said I heard this and I can't remember from who or when, but this could be a reason you so much more oil on the Bear.

[Unregistered]

No, there is no internal mod on the pistons that increases the amount of flow by reducing ring tension, nice guess though, but I don't believe you will see the real reason printed here on the board. If you have noticed over the years that the slightly dirtier Bear engines have been able to run harder than the cleaner ones you would not be far off. I think this one is running properly dirty and I have been around to watch for a long time. Perhaps if they figured out just how dirty they should have been running September Fury would have finished their lap at Mach warp 1, But a Racing entity needs experience burning down and analyzing failures on the equipment that they are going to run harder than anyone else ever has. While one team has all the money and a little experience, the other has a little money and all the experience. Wow it is the the legendary David and Goliath epic. Just remember as was demonstrated this year. the Bear has a deep well of experience to back it's new young soldiers as they gallop off into battle. But the September Fury guys can continue to hemorage cash and dead horses as they try to run with well lead, well organized team. As long as Bill Hickle remains a field grade player in the trenches, there will always be a rabbit in the hat. Maybe Mike Brown ought to hire some Bears to tune his engine and set it up. Of course that would through money at the Bear. But I doubt it would level the field.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Hummn...

this sort of explains, if I'm following your train of thought here.. why the Bear looks a lot cleaner when it's being run really hard.... (and I don't think it's the wind blowing it off )

I won't explain what I know of the why of that because you didn't and maybe nobody wants anyone to know that particular why... but....

I'll say one word... "tolerances"....

Am I close??

Wayne

[Unregistered]

For the laymen,

A sloppy cold engine will warm up to correct tolerances when run hard. The hard part is to figure out what RPM/etc. you want to run and then determine how sloppy the engine should be cold.

This same phylosophy is used all the way down to formula one.

Takes lot's of work, testing and research.

King

[Ron101502]

As a Bear "sponsor" I appreciate all the info and especially the hard work you guys do.

Ron

[AAFO_WSagar]

Originally posted by Unregistered
This same phylosophy is used all the way down to formula one.

Takes lot's of work, testing and research

I've heard of engines being built where tolerances were figured using exact temps measured on an operational engine.. parts were heated in oven, measured and fitted accordingly...

I've also heard that when cold, they sound like a sewing machine.. when running at race power.. it all comes together..

Wayne

[Curt]

That’s what makes an air cooled engine such a challenge, a liquid cooled V-12 the tolerances can be much tighter and as heat is built the good old radiator keeps things happy, if you built up the Radial and dropped a decimal point you run into all sorts of nastys ! I had an SL 100 that I didn’t get the liner bored quite enough and after I would run it hard for 20 minutes or so she would start to Really tighten up, the solution??
Find a mud puddle and make a few passes through it and the problem was solved for another 20 or so! After a few days of that it quit doing it and it ran like a top for years, can’t beat a one lung Honda for taking abuse!!!

[AAFO_WSagar]

Originally posted by Curt
That’s what makes an air cooled engine such a challenge

LOL Curt, never had a Honda but... In my VW days...

I've always HATED oil leaks.. any leaks for that matter... When my old VeeWee bus ('74, dual carbs, 1.8L, sodium valves) finally started to get tired at about 125k, I decided to do "THE" rebuild to end all rebuilds.. all new Mahle barrels, new cam... new carbs.. everything...

I sweated over that motor with such great care with a mind towards stopping all the leaks before they had a chance to happen...

Yea... like you can do that with a Vdub...

It was a runner, that's for sure.. lapped the cyls to the heads removing a bit of space by losing the sealing rings.. raised the compression.. had tons of power (for a VW bus) but.. first time I ran it for a bit and parked it.. next morning... leaks..

And it would always smoke a bit until you got it really warm..

I now drive a Chevy WATERPUMPER 350cu in V-8... I almost NEVER look under the hood, it don't leak, it don't complain, it keeps me warm when it's cold and cold when it's warm.. drives all day at speeds that would have had the old bus wheezing and screaming for mercy (not really, but it made a lot of noise doing it)

What was I ever thinking when I bought my first VW????

NEVER again...

Wayne

[mayday51]

Wayne,

......air cooleds don't "leak oil"
they just mark their territory........






......yep ....I've had a few....."hippie vans" too!....

[AlisoBob]

Oil mess.....

Oil pushed out the engine vents, or oil leaking out various seals or gaskets, or oil streaming out the exhaust have nothing to do with horsepower levels, and in the case of oil streaming out the exhaust it is robbing horsepower due to the contamination of the intake charge, and detonation induced by the oil.

In any form of motorsports, a big sloppy engine is just that.

If the bear crew got the oil out of the cylinders, perhaps they would make enough power to go 500 like Dago', and the engine would last. It they got the leaks sealed up, perhaps somebody with a clear windscreen could pass them from third place.

To state that this condition is nessasary to make big power is untrue, and is hurting them more than anything...

Dont make excuses for them just because its the "Rare Bear"team and we are all supposed to feel sorry for them.. The Critical Mass team made very good power this year, without puking their guts out.

There are lots of potential leaking points on a big radial, so a few drips are acceptable. But not to the extent #77 displays so proudly, like it is a accomplishment.

Bob Higginson