a picture for your paroosal

[Unregistered]

Matt,
You were trolling for reaction, and since you have decided to stick your neck out and speak on issues you do not completely understand while being presumptuos in your regurgitation of information you have gleened from the conversations you have participated in primarily as a listener. You must be ready to be tried as an adult. This is the first shot across your bow, if I were you I would take that as a warning that in the future it may get ugly. I think that in posting an old picture you were trying to mistakenly give the impression that this was a current malfunction ongoing with the Bear program. This is not what this or any other forum needs to discuss. The next shot will be through your hull where in your credibility for making such statements or observations will be agressively attacked until you are wimpering like a jelly fish on the beach. Stand watch young sailor that is a sub at perisope depth just off your port bow.

[Randy Haskin]

Originally posted by Unregistered
you were trying to mistakenly give the impression that this was a current malfunction ongoing with the Bear program. This is not what this or any other forum needs to discuss.

First off, I didn't get that impression of Matt's posting of the picture, and I don't see how anyone would casually take it that way. Isn't it tantamount to the "oilcanning" thread we had here months ago when Wingman posted one of his photos? Similar perhaps to the discussion of the Tommy Rose photo? Sure seems like it to me. None of those threads were started to point fingers...they were all started to say "hey, look at something weird in this photo...discuss."

Two, I don't agree that issues with race aircraft are "not what this...forum needs to discuss." Hell, isn't that why these forums are here?

Holy smokes, guys...we all know there are sensitive issues, bad feelings, and the like with what has happened to people maintaining Rare Bear over the last 3 or 4 years. The vast majority of that is none of our business, and the vast majority of the people don't bring things like that up (including, in my opinion, Matt's post here). We don't have to make discussions that are not about that *into* ones that are.

[wingman]

Amen, Randy -- I saw nothing in Matt's original post that seemed to me at all at all offensive to anybody. I thought it was a good post, and from a factual point of view it brought some very interesting responses. More Rare Bear history is never a bad thing, in my humble opinion!

Lighten up everybody -- we've got a good thing going here in this forum. Let's not screw it up by getting too prickly with each other!

Neal

[matt]

you're right, i was trolling for reaction unregistered, the reaction of what people thought of that particular picture. i don't know about these issues, that's why i asked, to understand. i'm ready, try me, i have a lot of experience in ugly situation, badidea, if that is you, you know that just as well as i. not at all what i intended i just thought it was a cool pic, and if by chance this was still a problem to be dealt with, to bring it to there attention. something said can anger, something not said can kill.

don't threaten me. i'm sick of my credibility being hurt because of a misunderstanding, which is after all, all this is.

[Randy Haskin]

Originally posted by matt
i'm sick of my credibility being hurt

You have credibility?!

[matt]

at one time i did, kinda dead now, lol

[Unregistered]

Matt,

Please enlighten us as to once had credibility and how you got it.

[Unregistered]

those who know me, know.

i don't want to get into this, again.

["Bear Driver"]

OK...Here's an attempt to bring some factual information to this topic. After discussing this with our crew chief. there are a few things we can offer.
1. The engine mounting ring is not torqueing over due to reaction to engine/propeller torque and causing misalignment of the pocket door hardware. The misalignment observed when we have race power applied is due to deflection of the engine mounting lord mounts, visually reflected in the cowling misalignment. If the engine mounting ring were to be rotating as suggested, the geometry of the whole engine mount arrangement would probably impart destructive deflection into the fuselage structure.
2. It's not just the pocket doors that we've had trouble with. The main gear doors (and gear) have also been witnessed hanging out in the airstream. They would not be affected by this supposed rotation of the engine mounting ring.
3. The jet ejector ("reverse scupper") effect of the exhaust system does not generate a negative pressure field in the accessory section/wheel well cavity of the fuselage. It is used to accelerate the exit of cooling airflow through the power section (cylinders) of the engine. The accessory section actually experiences a positive differential pressure due to the influx of high pressure cooling air for some accessories. This air is allowed to exit the accessory section via vertical slits in the flame panels. This air joins the ejected cylinder cooling air along the fuselage boundary layer aft of the engine.
4. we're not exactly sure what the pressure field is outside the gear doors. Any static flow field studies would be invalid at the higher AOAs experienced during pylon turns anyway.
5. The dedication of this very hard working group of "Reno Mechs" has all but eliminated this recurring problem. They continue to engineer, tweak and adjust with the goal of making it go away forever. We're darn near there.
6. Ya'll be nicer to each other out there.

John Penney, Crewmember
"Rare Bear" Air Racing Team

[matt]

thanks john, nice explanation.

[Unregistered]

Originally posted by "Bear Driver"
OK...Here's an attempt to bring some factual information to this topic. After discussing this with our crew chief. there are a few things we can offer.

<Explanations snipped for brevity>

Thanks for the thorough explanation. Its much appreciated!

Steve L.

["Bear Driver"]

Clarification on previous "factual information"...

After discussing at length with one of our "Bear" consultants who has contributed an enormous amount of energy into this project over many years:

1. Reference what I said earlier, the jury may still be out on the net pressure in the accessory section/wheel well area. It might be negative as a result of the reverse scupper design. Testing was done years ago that indicated that it may be that way. Accurate determination would require, however, the precise measurement of pressure deltas in the cavity referenced to the exact location at the air exit point.

2. As stiff as the engine mount is, there may be a microscopic amount of torsional rotation of the mounting ring (along with macroscopic deflection of the lord mounts). How much is unknown. Precise measurement would determine if it would be enough to cause pocket door actuating system anomalies.

3. I want all out there to know that with very few exceptions, the members of the "Rare Bear" air racing crew, past and present, have been some of the most talanted, dedicated and committed people I've ever had the pleasure to work with. They've worked their hearts out for years to make the "Bear" the World's fastest propeller driven airplane, and the current crew continues that legacy in a most professional manner.

........'Nuff said...