And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

Very well said Neal.

Who's Neal?

[omalley1537]

Re: And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

I see an even bigger problem on the horizon that has less to do with money and more to do with the generational differences in play. In my mid-30's, I consider my generation to be about the start of the downhill slope in this country. The people who created our infrastructure and won the great war were "do-ers", i.e., no entitlement, something needs to get done they got together and did it. No instant gratification, lots of sacrifice, and no expectation of a pat on the back. These same types of people created and maintained unlimited air racing. As was pointed out by Sparrow, many of the current generation have no interest in taking the reigns. One of the problems is that the current generations by and large want everything, want it now, and don't want to work for it. This is one of the reasons that most of my friends are older than me and why my pursuits (muscle cars, engine tinkering, RC airplane flying (and BUILDING, not ARF) are more traditional. I see plenty of people in the current generations with loads of money, but it seems like they would rather spend it on shrines to their greatness, partying, irresponsible behavior, lawyers to get them out of the last one, and instant gratification. Those who do get involved in things like hot rods/muscle cars want to write a check for the finished product, not build it themselves. I can pop the hood of my Camaro and state with pride and honesty when someone asks who built my engine-I DID!" Trouble is, I just don't see this as a prevalent trend right now, and this is the type that unlimited air racing needs to survive.

I wanted to also comment that while I appreciate all the classes at Reno, and even hope to someday compete in Sport (pilot's license and LOTS of hours from now...), the cold hard reality is that right, wrong, or indifferent the current type of unlimited are the big draw. Even if the sport class suddenly started running 500+ mph laps, there is truly nothing that sounds like a Merlin, Griffon, 2800/3350/4360 at race power. Nothing. In addition, even the "stock" warbirds give folks like myself a chance to see something that I rarely get to see, flying in a way that is much more fun to watch than any airshow. Its also a chance for me to see the evidence of a truly great generation and what I consider to be one of the last true motorsports devoid of corporate influence overriding the racing (See NASCAR, SX/MX, etc). Ironically that purity is also why the NCAR are in trouble, which sucks. I love MX, having been basically born and raised around it. But I have now (after 23 years riding/racing) gotten disgusted by Energy Drink this, so and so insurance that, and the large scale infiltration of the cheap thrills crowd. I would hate to see air racing get to that point.

[Desertdawg]

Re: And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

I was surprised we had a 50th in the aftermath of 2011. We survived and made it to the 50th with a lot of help and determination from countless people.

Like I told everyone, better enjoy the 50th, its a major milestone and something to celebrate - there is a very good chance the 50th will be the last Reno Air Races. We did our part by spending lots of money more than in any other year, RARA Store, tickets, pit passes and $200.00 earlier in the year through the store.

Our little group of Section 3 even spent $400.00 on some custom laminated hangtags commemorating the 50th that we handed out.

I'm usually optimistic (glass half full) type of person, but I have a gut feeling this is it as we know it. Judging by the low contribution level I am not alone with that thinking.

However, not everything is gloom and doom. Should RARA fold there will be a new event that will rise from the ashes. One that does not have unbearable financial burden from the events of 2011 to limit its vision.

There is enough interest and the Stead airport and September make perfect opportunity for a new aviation themed event. We could only hope for a positive solution.

[Jim58]

Re: And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

"Stop with the negative waves, Moriarty!

Thanks Wayne, Wild Bill and Air Judge for the positive waves.

Jeez...YOU BEAT ME TO IT...I WANTED TO USE THAT LINE


Please remember to support your local Air Racing Association

when I am able to attend I spend...when I am not able attend I still find a way to spend......I wish I knew what I spent went to the right people.

I love Air Racing....I dislike the BS...

Carry On

[flyingjibus]

Re: And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

You want more money from me? Open up your books and show me where its all going. There is too much money changing hands during race week for them to tell us the races will cease if they dont get 500k in 23 days.

Some math:

Average of 75,000 people attend these days.

Let's assume each person spends $400 ( a low number, I budget $500 and I do the races on the super cheap)

That's 30 MILLION dollars.

Tell me where that money is going?

If the races die it wont be because we didn't give them enough money, it will be because the people getting the money are not spending it correctly.

PERIOD.

There are more forces at play here than RARA, and it's time they become part of this discussion.

OPEN THE BOOKS RARA.

[flyingjibus]

Re: And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

Our little group of Section 3 even spent $400.00 on some custom laminated hangtags commemorating the 50th that we handed out.

Thank you for those. Mine is hanging on my shelf.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

Thank you for those. Mine is hanging on my shelf.

Indeed, THANKS!... Mine is hanging from a stand up mirror at my condo!

[ignomini]

Re: And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

Who's Neal?

They're refering to me, Robert Goldman. Guess I should attach my name to my words.

[flyingjibus]

Re: And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

They're refering to me, Robert Goldman. Guess I should attach my name to my words.

Confusing you with Neal Nurmi would be my guess?

[omalley1537]

Re: And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

You want more money from me? Open up your books and show me where its all going. There is too much money changing hands during race week for them to tell us the races will cease if they dont get 500k in 23 days.

Some math:

Average of 75,000 people attend these days.

Let's assume each person spends $400 ( a low number, I budget $500 and I do the races on the super cheap)

That's 30 MILLION dollars.

Tell me where that money is going?

If the races die it wont be because we didn't give them enough money, it will be because the people getting the money are not spending it correctly.

PERIOD.

There are more forces at play here than RARA, and it's time they become part of this discussion.

OPEN THE BOOKS RARA.

+1 on this. Ironically, this was almost a quote from my dad when I mentioned the crowd funding thing to him. We did some very rough math and it came out very similar to yours. Either there is something that I am totally missing here, or ?

[ignomini]

Re: And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

+1 on this. Ironically, this was almost a quote from my dad when I mentioned the crowd funding thing to him. We did some very rough math and it came out very similar to yours. Either there is something that I am totally missing here, or ?

My question on this relates to how the money is spent. You're not claiming everyone spends $400 with RARA are you? I can see that as total spend between RARA, vendors at the races, and in the local community. To be fair to RARA, you really have to carve out only the money which lands in their pocket. Tickets and regalia go to them, and I assume they charge license fees to the vendors. Maybe they take a percentage of sales, I don't know.

The impact of money spent in the community is different from money spent on RARA. To be fair, while I probably dropped $2,000 last year, it was on a combination of hotel, meals, lens rental, gas, etc. Of that, RARA maybe got $500 over the course of the week, but that included a healthy batch of regalia I would not normally buy.

[Leo]

Re: And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

According to their site, a 10x10 booth is $550, plus a 20% commission to them. Assuming this is a percentage of gross sales (it doesn't specify but it used to be that way), you need to sell $4000 of product to meet the minimum before you see a clear profit.
Have looked into it several times over the years to sell artwork and I am simply too small! I would have to sell about 1500 prints to make it worth my while with time and such.
In the big picture it is not that much BUT think about how much money the different booths must run through them and it is a fair amount of money.
My tickets add up to around $100 and I maybe spend another $100 during the week with pin, some food, etc. Living nearby I have no living expenses that relate to RARA.
I am one of the true cheapskates relating to this event...

I won't bash RARA as I don't know what their expenses truly are, where the money goes, etc. They seem to make the IRS happy so unless they want to reveal the "books" I feel I really can't demand it. If I donated large sums, probably would want to know.

[ShermB]

Re: And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

How much did it cost RARA to rent the grandstands, carpet, stancions to demark the boxes, the rental fees for the tents, booths, chairs, tables, banners, signage, and all the other "hidden" costs?

How much did they pay for the rental cars ( and other costs) for the show acts?

What was the cost for renting the field? The various license or permit fees?

All you people are doing the math incorrectly cuz you don't have the expense sheet in front of you.

I can speak from experience about the expenses of putting on a race. In 1986 we raced in littlke old Richlanbd, WA, with what we thought was a pretty good idea of expenses/income, so when Sunday rolled around we found ourselves $20,000 short. We could not pay our fees to our performers. We ended up giving them $0.40 on each dollar we owed them, and a 90 day promisary note for the balance. We were fortunate enough to make the deadline and pay them all off. Thank God we did not have a purse to pay the winners -- they all raced (with-out an entry fee) for room and board and a plaque and/or a trophy. The good old days, when it is said they would race for money, marbles or chalk.

Betty Sherman, Treasurer
National Air racing Group (NAG)

[Leo]

Re: And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

I can imagine, Betty, that the cost of all of those "little things" that make something like this happen, but most people either don't notice or take for granted (the porta-johns for instance) is enormous.
I've helped put on small events like car shows and the costs and logistics for something like that are extensive in relation to the size of the event. Now multiply that be 1000 and I get what RARA is up against.

[Sparrow]

Re: And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

How much did it cost RARA to rent the grandstands, carpet, stancions to demark the boxes, the rental fees for the tents, booths, chairs, tables, banners, signage, and all the other "hidden" costs?

How much did they pay for the rental cars ( and other costs) for the show acts?

What was the cost for renting the field? The various license or permit fees?

All you people are doing the math incorrectly cuz you don't have the expense sheet in front of you.

Since this event has been going on for 50 years, perhaps the question to ask is, how much of this is sponsored to them??
Sparrow