Isn't it about time Reno introduced an electric class

[Lockheed Bob]

Re: Isn't it about time Reno introduced an electric class

Next we will have operators in a windowless concrete blockhouse flying drone races. How exciting can you get? We will be able to text each other while watching them from afar. No sounds no talk. Wow. I'm sure glad I got to see real races & being there.

[N22252]

Re: Isn't it about time Reno introduced an electric class

Next we will have operators in a windowless concrete blockhouse flying drone races. How exciting can you get? We will be able to text each other while watching them from afar. No sounds no talk. Wow. I'm sure glad I got to see real races & being there.

Sounds like my experience last year... I watched the Saturday Unlimited Gold on my phone while sitting in my kitchen. Later I read on the internet that the guy that won wasn't the winner.

[gp70442]

Re: Isn't it about time Reno introduced an electric class

Sounds like my experience last year... I watched the Saturday Unlimited Gold on my phone while sitting in my kitchen. Later I read on the internet that the guy that won wasn't the winner.

Well the cell phone was your choice and I assume that was because you couldn't be there for some reason. Better than nothing I assume or you wouldn't have watched. As for the first place airplane not winning, well that has nothing to do with the situation and has happened a lot over the years. Pylon cuts, whatever.

Don't understand the whining.

The races will never be what they once were. That's life. If you don't like it, don't go.
The unlimited class has been dying a slow death for many years now although not many are willing to admit it. We all know the reasons. Sport class is getting more exciting every year though.

There are a couple new generations out there that embrace new technology. One day they may want to watch electric airplanes competing because they probably don't even know what a P-51 is and cannot relate.

GP

[Reno_Steve]

Re: Isn't it about time Reno introduced an electric class

Well the cell phone was your choice and I assume that was because you couldn't be there for some reason. Better than nothing I assume or you wouldn't have watched. As for the first place airplane not winning, well that has nothing to do with the situation and has happened a lot over the years. Pylon cuts, whatever.

Don't understand the whining.

The races will never be what they once were. That's life. If you don't like it, don't go.
The unlimited class has been dying a slow death for many years now although not many are willing to admit it. We all know the reasons. Sport class is getting more exciting every year though.

There are a couple new generations out there that embrace new technology. One day they may want to watch electric airplanes competing because they probably don't even know what a P-51 is and cannot relate.

GP

The choice is ours. We can keep watching the war birds as they become more valuable and are never allowed to reach their true potential again, or start watching new aircraft that are purpose built to race.
It is like the difference between going to a historical car race event or the latest Le Mans series or F1.
We probably all think that the races were better in the olden days, but we have to also think about the future.
You can keep telling your children that it used to be better, but when there are no warbirds left, do we just say that air racing is now dead. Keep the unlimited class going in its current form as long as possible but also we should have an open propelller class with electrics , possibly turbo props and what ever people can put together using existing ic engines.

[Reno_Steve]

Re: Isn't it about time Reno introduced an electric class

Next we will have operators in a windowless concrete blockhouse flying drone races. How exciting can you get? We will be able to text each other while watching them from afar. No sounds no talk. Wow. I'm sure glad I got to see real races & being there.

If these drones were Mustangs and Bearcats would you have any complaints. The racing could be faster , closer to the ground and with much tighter racing due to no danger of pilot injuries. To the casual fan there would be no difference as they cant see the pilots clearly anyway. The pilot and engineering skill is still there, although for the pilot the experience would not be as complete (although this is debatable as I feel more of a speed element flying RC than from the cockpit).

[Exhaustgases]

Re: Isn't it about time Reno introduced an electric class

And yeah then air racing will be as exciting as the Hydro plane racing is now. Just not the same watching a fuel guzzling vacuum cleaner powered boat. In the old Recip days I never missed watching the Hydro races on Lake Washington. Now I could care less. And that is the problem with any motor sports they are trying to eliminate the engineering aspect and make it similar to ball sports, like the indy with one engine supplier so as to make that aspect of the race unimportant and put all the attention on the person throwing the ball so to say.

[Race5]

Re: Isn't it about time Reno introduced an electric class

And yeah then air racing will be as exciting as the Hydro plane racing is now. Just not the same watching a fuel guzzling vacuum cleaner powered boat. In the old Recip days I never missed watching the Hydro races on Lake Washington. Now I could care less. And that is the problem with any motor sports they are trying to eliminate the engineering aspect and make it similar to ball sports, like the indy with one engine supplier so as to make that aspect of the race unimportant and put all the attention on the person throwing the ball so to say.

Exactly. Electric airplanes would be like watching paint dry. We need things that excite people, not put them to sleep.

[IcePaq]

Re: Isn't it about time Reno introduced an electric class

So electric planes have noiseless props?

[Fence Sence]

Re: Isn't it about time Reno introduced an electric class

Exactly. Electric airplanes would be like watching paint dry. We need things that excite people, not put them to sleep.

So if everything is exactly the same, same planes, same course, same speeds, same fans, everything identical except the power plants being electric, it would be like watching paint dry? I don't think it would be. I also don't think the Unlimited Hydroplane comparison is fair either. You can't hear the prop of a boat. We are also comparing jet engines to electric engines. Last I checked they are quite different.

If those of you who are so against electric power don't like them because they don't make the right noise, what do you suggest as an alternative power source? Christ, we'll all be dead someday and the world will move forward. It's called evolution. Without it, there would be no internal combustion. Where would your precious ears be then?

Ok, that's a bit harsh. Maybe they could stick some big playing cards between the rotors and stators.

[Lockheed Bob]

Re: Isn't it about time Reno introduced an electric class

Why don't they somehow with today's technology have a system that dubs in the sounds of a P&W & or a Merlin that comes on over the sound of the electric motors? What a show with electric motors producing the sounds of 3800/4000 HP race engines.

[Reno_Steve]

Re: Isn't it about time Reno introduced an electric class

Why don't they somehow with today's technology have a system that dubs in the sounds of a P&W & or a Merlin that comes on over the sound of the electric motors? What a show with electric motors producing the sounds of 3800/4000 HP race engines.

No fake sounds please.

F1 car racing has been going through the same complaints because the turbo cars are quiet, but it is a sport so the cars have to attempt to win rather than sound good in my opinion.
I dont think a 5000hp electric plane would be that quiet anyway.
I dont see this as a replacement to ic but hopefully they will be competing in the same class so the spectators will learn to recognise the aircraft by the sounds.

[Reno_Steve]

Re: Isn't it about time Reno introduced an electric class

"American Superconductor's prototype 5,000-hp HTS motor is about the size of a household refrigerator. It is as little as half the size and weight of a conventional 5,000-hp motor. Its net electrical losses, including losses associated with cryogenic cooling of the HTS wires, are up to half the electrical losses of a conventional motor.

Motors over 1,000 hp use about 25% of all electric power generated in the United States. The Department of Energy estimates that HTS motors could save billions of dollars per year."

[Race5]

Re: Isn't it about time Reno introduced an electric class

"American Superconductor's prototype 5,000-hp HTS motor is about the size of a household refrigerator. It is as little as half the size and weight of a conventional 5,000-hp motor. Its net electrical losses, including losses associated with cryogenic cooling of the HTS wires, are up to half the electrical losses of a conventional motor.

Motors over 1,000 hp use about 25% of all electric power generated in the United States. The Department of Energy estimates that HTS motors could save billions of dollars per year."

That motor is designed for diesel electric applications like ships and locomotives. A battery bank large enough to power it for 20 minutes would be larger and heavier than Dreadnought.

[Fence Sence]

Re: Isn't it about time Reno introduced an electric class

That motor is designed for diesel electric applications like ships and locomotives. A battery bank large enough to power it for 20 minutes would be larger and heavier than Dreadnought.

Yup. It'll never change either. Motors nor batteries will never get smaller or more powerful so, right, we should never try.

C'mon man. The world, as we have discovered, is not flat. I don't understand how a race fan can be against racing anything. I can't speak for you but for me, as a human, racing, in all its forms, is by far my favorite form of competition. Watching paint dry is not exciting. However, if two painters each paint two things directly next to each other, one with one type of paint and the other with a supposedly faster drying type of paint and that second painter starts talking **** about how much faster his paint dries, well then things just got much more interesting and I wanna know who wins.

[Reno_Steve]

Re: Isn't it about time Reno introduced an electric class

To me we should try racing electric planes as soon as possible. The fun is watching lap times improve each year, through better designs , pilots and technology.
If we wait too long the electric planes will start at a level equal to the current crop of unlimited racers and really have no where to improve as the limits will be aerodynamic limits on propellers and airframes.

The IOM TT example I quoted showed how much progress has been made with the bikes in just a few years , equaling the performance improvements of ic bikes in 70 years.

The rules should dictate a maximum battery weight (possibly with several classes), so that the airframes are not compromised to fit too large a battery at the expense of safety. I feel 1000kg would be a sensible maximum weight for the battery providing an average of about 1000hp for around 20 minutes with current LIPO batteries. This would cost approx $100,000 I would expect.

"March 2015: Prototype EMRAX 348 is coming (1200 Nm /350 kW at 3000 RPM, weight 42 kg, diameter 348 mm, length 107 mm, IP65). First prototype will be ready for testing in next few months. Also we are preparing documentation for EMRAX 348T, which can deliver power 600 kW, torque 2400 Nm, weight 70 kg, dimensions: dia 348 mm length 170 mm".

http://nextbigfuture.com/2015/04/siemens-and-emrax-claim-best-power-to.html

N.B. Even though the average is only 1000hp , we could see power reaching 10,000hp for short bursts. This would mean that we could have exhibition one lap speeds well above current record speeds. Or we could just watch paint dry if that is what you prefer.