Could Restrictor Plate Rules Save Unlimited Air Racing?

[Big_Jim]

Re: Could Restrictor Plate Rules Save Unlimited Air Racing?

Having 'lived' this in the unlimited hydroplane world, restricted racing of any kind sucks. It's done for the right reasons (to save the equipment), but it kills the sport....and very....painfully....slowly.

I'm not sure that trying to preserve the Unlimiteds as they stand now is the long-term answer, and ultimately would like to see some of the top-end Super Sports stand it up a notch and go head to head with the Unlimiteds...even though it ads a safety issue through size and visibility differential.

[wyhdah]

Re: Could Restrictor Plate Rules Save Unlimited Air Racing?

I think there is one major thing that would help the sport. The lack of exposure makes selling a sponsor on funding a team almost impossible. If we could get the sport just into the aviation community spotlight it would help.

We have to find a way for those willing to put up the money to get maximum return. Does anyone think we are close to that?

[GRNDP51]

Re: Could Restrictor Plate Rules Save Unlimited Air Racing?

I think there is one major thing that would help the sport. The lack of exposure makes selling a sponsor on funding a team almost impossible. If we could get the sport just into the aviation community spotlight it would help.

We have to find a way for those willing to put up the money to get maximum return. Does anyone think we are close to that?

This is the only thing we need and it is almost positively the hardest to do. We all know that the key to keeping Unlimited air racing alive is money, sponsors, and exposure. None of us want to see the Unlimited's go and I can guarantee that 99.9% of us wish air racing could stay exactly how it is now with the addition of hopefully more racers, and ideas like the Pond Racer.

People don't want to sponsor air racing because it isn't big enough and racers don't want to spend loads of money just to have some fun and some bragging rights in this small community. People like Nixon are DEFINITELY needed if we want to continue, but nobody wants or needs a full time job making race Merlins, it's just not worth it. In this huge AAFO community I think that we need to start combining our thoughts, talents, and resources to help Unlimited Air Racing remain as it is today.

We need more enthusiasm to race which is obviously brought about by money and rewards, but no one can field an Unlimited race plane without sponsors. And these sponsors do not want to spend valuable funds supporting a unlimited plane that is seen at a venue once a year! I may have an idea, but then again it costs money and dedication…
I think our Unlimited planes need to show up at air shows across the world to show the power and capabilities that plenty of airshow fans do not know because they haven't been to the races. This would also increase individual sponsor activity because their name is displayed prominently in some of the most popular air shows in the country. I am one of those that are against a second race besides Reno, but I think that the planes need to be shown off more!! Somebody in here said in a thread a few days ago that the reason they first came to Reno was because of the exhibition race at Oshkosh (or whatever it was). I am sure he was not the only one who was influenced. The planes honestly don't even need to fly but could just set up an area that looks exactly like the Reno pits with a trailer and all to show what Reno is like. If they do fly, say Voodoo flies with a stock engine, but flies with a full stock mustang to see aerodynamic differences etc. The other thing that all the Unlimited planes need is a couple good websites saying their happenings and such. I have the gut feeling that people like Tiger do not give a sh!t about promoting their activities and think showing up in September is enough promotion-wise. Yes it is hard and takes a lot of pilot and team dedication, but don't people like Steven, Tiger, Rod, Hoot, Dennis, Matt, Thom, Sherman want the sport to continue as well? I know Matt can give an answer, but honestly Matt how much would you care if Unlimited racing was over with for good? I know you don't have a plane, but think if you did, and you did have Furias just a short time ago. If Furias was running well and placing in top 3 each year and you were having the time of your life would you want it to end??? Of course not! I'm only focusing on you because you are an active poster and sadly the only one without a race plane to call yours right now. But actually now that I think about it maybe Thom can come in with a reply. You guys just got a new sponsor so your team is doing something right! I can feel a potential reno sponsor from them as well if they got hooked on you guys! I know you Thom bring PM to a couple air shows through the year and when you are prepping her for Reno it's hard to get to shows, but you have still done it.

I am done, any thoughts?

[Arctic Cat]

Re: Could Restrictor Plate Rules Save Unlimited Air Racing?

I think there is one major thing that would help the sport. The lack of exposure makes selling a sponsor on funding a team almost impossible. If we could get the sport just into the aviation community spotlight it would help.

We have to find a way for those willing to put up the money to get maximum return. Does anyone think we are close to that?

Nope.

From a business owners standpoint, sponsorship is just another word for advertising and marketing. Businesses spend money with an expected return on investment. The $100,000+ needed to fund just a single race engine is a tough nut to cracked a reasonable Roi on. A sponsor would need to see an increased sales benefit of $300,000 to $1 million to justify that kind of expense. That will be very hard to meet with the relatively small and diverse Reno crowd. I only see a big sponsorship coming in if an owner is willing to commit to Reno and multiple other air shows throughout the year so they can build a campaign around the plane and pilot and get it in front of enough eyes to make it worth the sponsorship dollors. Without a good roi, any sponsorship is just a gift from a benefactor who loves the sport.

[GRNDP51]

Re: Could Restrictor Plate Rules Save Unlimited Air Racing?

Nope.

From a business owners standpoint, sponsorship is just another word for advertising and marketing. Businesses spend money with an expected return on investment. The $100,000+ needed to fund just a single race engine is a tough nut to cracked a reasonable Roi on. A sponsor would need to see an increased sales benefit of $300,000 to $1 million to justify that kind of expense. That will be very hard to meet with the relatively small and diverse Reno crowd. I only see a big sponsorship coming in if an owner is willing to commit to Reno and multiple other air shows throughout the year so they can build a campaign around the plane and pilot and get it in front of enough eyes to make it worth the sponsorship dollors. Without a good roi, any sponsorship is just a gift from a benefactor who loves the sport.

You read my mind as i typed my response above.

[wyhdah]

Re: Could Restrictor Plate Rules Save Unlimited Air Racing?

Nope.

From a business owners standpoint, sponsorship is just another word for advertising and marketing. Businesses spend money with an expected return on investment. The $100,000+ needed to fund just a single race engine is a tough nut to cracked a reasonable Roi on. A sponsor would need to see an increased sales benefit of $300,000 to $1 million to justify that kind of expense. That will be very hard to meet with the relatively small and diverse Reno crowd. I only see a big sponsorship coming in if an owner is willing to commit to Reno and multiple other air shows throughout the year so they can build a campaign around the plane and pilot and get it in front of enough eyes to make it worth the sponsorship dollors. Without a good roi, any sponsorship is just a gift from a benefactor who loves the sport.

B-I-N-G-O

[N22252]

Re: Could Restrictor Plate Rules Save Unlimited Air Racing?

Nope.

From a business owners standpoint, sponsorship is just another word for advertising and marketing. Businesses spend money with an expected return on investment. The $100,000+ needed to fund just a single race engine is a tough nut to cracked a reasonable Roi on. A sponsor would need to see an increased sales benefit of $300,000 to $1 million to justify that kind of expense. That will be very hard to meet with the relatively small and diverse Reno crowd. I only see a big sponsorship coming in if an owner is willing to commit to Reno and multiple other air shows throughout the year so they can build a campaign around the plane and pilot and get it in front of enough eyes to make it worth the sponsorship dollors. Without a good roi, any sponsorship is just a gift from a benefactor who loves the sport.

Are there any airlines sponsoring the event? $1 million is not a crazy number for increased sales if you can encourage more couples and families to travel from East of the Rockies to see the races.

[Arctic Cat]

Re: Could Restrictor Plate Rules Save Unlimited Air Racing?

Get a calculator out and do the math. Low margin businesses like airlines are not going to pour money into a racer with the hope of more flights from back east.

[Big_Jim]

Re: Could Restrictor Plate Rules Save Unlimited Air Racing?

Many years ago when I was on the National Air-Racing Group board of directors, I had pitched a fairly detailed proposal for an east-coast and west-coast Unlimited Air Racing 'demo team'. I was working on an airshow staff at the time so had learned the marketing side of things, gone to ICAS to see how it all 'worked', and thought that an actual 'act' that could be booked for airshows would be the perfect promo for Reno. The demo races at Oshkosh in the 90's went over well. About a decade ago the Nellis show had a demo race. The idea was the same.

Get 4 or 5 of the east coast unlimited guys to form an actual act that could be booked at shows in the mid-west and east coast, and the same thing for the west coast unlimiteds. Market to the shows as an 'act' that could be fit into a 15-minute time-slot each day of the show. And with it, have an announcer who knew what they were talking about and give the "Folks, these are the same racers you'll see at Reno this fall, and....blah, blah, blah." When not flying the 'team' could pit their planes where the fans could see them, and NAG/RARA could have a tent or booth with videos and information, and even ticket sales.

It would cost the airshow a certain amount of money to host the act (in addition to covering gas, oil, etc.) to cover the time as well as wear and tear on the machinery...but if you could sell that act at 4 or 5 major airshows over the course of the season, that's getting the word out big-time.

People go to airshows to see variety...and I always thought that would have been a variety worth the cost. Look how well the CAF 'demo' went over at Reno last year. That was 5 airplanes worth and took up 15-20 minutes. I don't know how much the CAF charged to do that, but...I'd say it was money well spent.

[wyhdah]

Re: Could Restrictor Plate Rules Save Unlimited Air Racing?

I like it. It would be pretty easy to pull off if the teams could get that show money you speak of.

[GRNDP51]

Re: Could Restrictor Plate Rules Save Unlimited Air Racing?

Many years ago when I was on the National Air-Racing Group board of directors, I had pitched a fairly detailed proposal for an east-coast and west-coast Unlimited Air Racing 'demo team'. I was working on an airshow staff at the time so had learned the marketing side of things, gone to ICAS to see how it all 'worked', and thought that an actual 'act' that could be booked for airshows would be the perfect promo for Reno. The demo races at Oshkosh in the 90's went over well. About a decade ago the Nellis show had a demo race. The idea was the same.

Get 4 or 5 of the east coast unlimited guys to form an actual act that could be booked at shows in the mid-west and east coast, and the same thing for the west coast unlimiteds. Market to the shows as an 'act' that could be fit into a 15-minute time-slot each day of the show. And with it, have an announcer who knew what they were talking about and give the "Folks, these are the same racers you'll see at Reno this fall, and....blah, blah, blah." When not flying the 'team' could pit their planes where the fans could see them, and NAG/RARA could have a tent or booth with videos and information, and even ticket sales.

It would cost the airshow a certain amount of money to host the act (in addition to covering gas, oil, etc.) to cover the time as well as wear and tear on the machinery...but if you could sell that act at 4 or 5 major airshows over the course of the season, that's getting the word out big-time.

People go to airshows to see variety...and I always thought that would have been a variety worth the cost. Look how well the CAF 'demo' went over at Reno last year. That was 5 airplanes worth and took up 15-20 minutes. I don't know how much the CAF charged to do that, but...I'd say it was money well spent.

I was expecting to hear a "This didn't work because…" since you said you started working on this in the past, were you part of the Nellis and Oshkosh demo's? If you were i assume you know why they are over now…?

[Big_Jim]

Re: Could Restrictor Plate Rules Save Unlimited Air Racing?

I was expecting to hear a "This didn't work because…" since you said you started working on this in the past, were you part of the Nellis and Oshkosh demo's? If you were i assume you know why they are over now…?

My idea was met with kind of an "eh....we kind of like what we're doing now, thanks....."

A couple, like Betty Sherman and Stu Eberhardt were on the board with me at the time and thought it was a good idea worth looking into, but the rest of the NAG group was less than enthusiastic. Never got a really good response as to why, but it was what it was. I was willing to do legwork on it. Had talked with a couple of the owners 'off the record' about what it would take for them to make it cost-effective, etc. It didn't work because...nobody was interested in trying to make it work. Sad fact.

I wasn't involved in either of the Oshkosh or Nellis demos, so I can't comment on those.

[GRNDP51]

Re: Could Restrictor Plate Rules Save Unlimited Air Racing?

My idea was met with kind of an "eh....we kind of like what we're doing now, thanks....."

A couple, like Betty Sherman and Stu Eberhardt were on the board with me at the time and thought it was a good idea worth looking into, but the rest of the NAG group was less than enthusiastic. Never got a really good response as to why, but it was what it was. I was willing to do legwork on it. Had talked with a couple of the owners 'off the record' about what it would take for them to make it cost-effective, etc. It didn't work because...nobody was interested in trying to make it work. Sad fact.

I wasn't involved in either of the Oshkosh or Nellis demos, so I can't comment on those.

Sadly I feel that nobody that is necessary to make it work wants to deal with making it work. Us in the peanut gallery who just pitch ideas (or you Big Jim who actually tries to get involved) have great thoughts but we need the big guys to be interested if anything is going to happen. And regarding the Oshkosh and Nellis, if those got off the ground maybe trying again isn't a bad thought? Air Racing was pretty prime in the early 2000's with some good racing and some more stir and interest every year I felt. I even remember Chino having a couple years of air race demos awhile back! I like the idea of the "Air Race East and West Demo Team" it seems official but then again we need a lot of commitment for it to work

[gv71]

Re: Could Restrictor Plate Rules Save Unlimited Air Racing?

At the 100 Years of Flight Dayton Air Show they had a mock air race with i believe Cloud Dancer, #57 red and white F2G, and a couple of t-6s.

Greg

[Race#21]

Re: Could Restrictor Plate Rules Save Unlimited Air Racing?

I started this in another thread but thought it was truly thread creep...

What if... in an effort to expand the competition, make the sport safer, make it "affordable" to more pilot/owners.... Limit all aircraft to stock motors with a "pop-off" valve to limit boost to a level that would ensure that the engine would last for many runs at race speed.

ALL inspected and approved aero mods would be allowed.

I brought up restrictor plate style racing over the years and have always been less than well received. What say now? In the face of losing the sport from a race course that has become "out of square" with the needs of the airplanes at the speeds they are going. We've talked about "G suits" and other means to keep the pilot's head in the game, what would be so wrong about just slowing down a bit?

So I'll ask the question: IF it was proven that it would extend the life of the sport, make it safer, bring in more racers... would you support the idea?

"Unlimited" means just that. Restrictor plates would not change the insurance costs, crew costs, espenses, and all. Not a workable option. IMHO.