Biggest airplane ever to race?

[AAFO_WSagar]

Was in a conversation this morning and someone asked "what's the biggest airplane ever raced?" I had to qualify the question with the question, "where?"

I know you guys are the most knowledgeable group in the world on the subject of air racing... Largest? At RENO?, or elsewhere... or both..

Didn't Clay race a DC-something at the 1000 mile race? Certainly that would have to qualify as the largest... Wasn't there an A-26 raced at RENO once?

I've misplaced all of my Gary Williams volumes... need help to answer this one..

Ladies and Gents.. you have the floor and I anxiously await your responses..

[Race5]

Re: Biggest airplane ever to race?

Was in a conversation this morning and someone asked "what's the biggest airplane ever raced?" I had to qualify the question with the question, "where?"

I know you guys are the most knowledgeable group in the world on the subject of air racing... Largest? At RENO?, or elsewhere... or both..

Didn't Clay race a DC-something at the 1000 mile race? Certainly that would have to qualify as the largest... Wasn't there an A-26 raced at RENO once?

I've misplaced all of my Gary Williams volumes... need help to answer this one..

Ladies and Gents.. you have the floor and I anxiously await your responses..

Clay raced the DC-6 "Super Snoopy" in the California 1000, and there was an A-26 at Reno. I can't think of anything larger that was ever raced.

[GRNDP51]

Re: Biggest airplane ever to race?

Clay raced the DC-6 "Super Snoopy" in the California 1000, and there was an A-26 at Reno. I can't think of anything larger that was ever raced.

B-25s showed up but didn't make the cut right?

[Leo]

Re: Biggest airplane ever to race?

A-26 Puss n' Boots raced in 85, even beat Blue Max in a heat race.
Pacific Princess showed but did not make the cut, as did Bill Arnot's "executive" B-25.

Didn't Clay once field a Connie at one of the Cali 1000's but wasn't allowed to race it?

[Reever]

Re: Biggest airplane ever to race?

Clay Lacy had the DC-6 and Fish Salmon showed up with the Connie, but in that race they weren't allowed to race.

[supercub]

Re: Biggest airplane ever to race?

Actually, I believe it was a DC-7

[cheapskater]

Re: Biggest airplane ever to race?

Super Snoopy was a DC7B with 4 turbo compounded Wright 3350s if I'm not mistaken. Raced the first 1000 mile race and never had to refuel which was considered an unfair advantage. DC7 was the last 4 engine piston airliner to be introduced into service and served until the Boeing 707 and Douglas DC8 went into service and effectively ended the piston engine era. There was some overlap of course. If I'm not mistaken the DC7B could cruise at 350 mph but the Turbo compounded Wright 3350 engines were not considered reliable by the airline according to my late father who was wrenching and maintenance instructing at Untidy Airlines from 1945 to 1985.

[taglialavore]

Re: Biggest airplane ever to race?

I found that a DC-7BF #64 Super Snoopy, raced in the California 1000 in 1970 (sixth place) flown by Clay Lacy and Allen Paulson. Not so bad the race position.
And also there were two A-26 Invader racers, where John Lear was involved, but they are not the biggest anyway.

[Desertdawg]

Re: Biggest airplane ever to race?

I found that a DC-7BF #64 Super Snoopy, raced in the California 1000 in 1970 (sixth place) flown by Clay Lacy and Allen Paulson. Not so bad the race position.
And also there were two A-26 Invader racers, where John Lear was involved, but they are not the biggest anyway.

Here's a link to a video of that California 1000 with Clay Lacy in the DC7, Race 64

http://youtu.be/Z0xSA7x3xn8

Great stuff.

[taglialavore]

Re: Biggest airplane ever to race?

You are right Wayne about an A-26 Invader in Reno. It was in 1968, flown by John Lear. Finished in 5th place.
BTW, many years ago I made a model kit of it.

[taglialavore]

Re: Biggest airplane ever to race?

Here's a link to a video of that California 1000 with Clay Lacy in the DC7, Race 64

http://youtu.be/Z0xSA7x3xn8

Great stuff.

Very nice video. Thanks for posting it Desertdawg.

[Big_Jim]

Re: Biggest airplane ever to race?

Super Snoopy was a DC7B with 4 turbo compounded Wright 3350s if I'm not mistaken. Raced the first 1000 mile race and never had to refuel which was considered an unfair advantage.

That's actually not quite true. There were several aircraft that flew non-stop in the '70 Mojave 1000, including winner Sherm Cooper in "Miss Merced", 2nd place finisher Doc Cummins in Dave Zeuschel's Mustang, and I think Jack Sliker may have gone non-stop as well. It wasn't considered an unfair advantage.

The reason the airliners were sanctioned out of the race was because Howie Keefe complained to the competition committee at the '71 U.S. Cup in San Diego that the DC-7 and Super Connie put up too big of a wake turbulence and were very difficult to get around/pass on the course. It was brought up as a 'safety issue', which may have been true to some extent, but the real truth is that Howie got beat by Super Snoopy at Mojave. And I don't believe they were actually 'banned', so much as new verbiage was put into the rule book that all aircraft had to make at least one pit stop and take on x-number gallons of fuel. That impacted all the 'wet wing' racers, as well as the airliners....and Lacy and Salmon realized that making in a pit-stop in the planes that big would take a long time and take away any kind of advantage they had by flying non-stop.

[Frank C.]

Re: Biggest airplane ever to race?

That was cool. Thanks Dawg


Frank C.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Biggest airplane ever to race?

Sort of but I just confirmed today that I'm going to have the privilege of helping Jeff Lee and Company with the Live AirShow TV production at RENO this year..

This thread has inspired a thought... I'd bet we could come up with some really good "trivia" FEATURE stuff, like this, with great back stories.. Maybe Jeff could use some of it to grab the interest of the fans who are just there to see the F-22..

You guys are certainly the deepest knowledge base resource that I know of.. We've got Lockheed Bob.. who was there post war!! Larry Burton who built Blind Man's Bluff/Critical Mass from a damn wheelchair... Many race pilot and crew... as well as some really dedicated, quality people who have been participating in, and, recording the history of the sport from the time they were in diapers!

I'm going to throw a link to this thread to Jeff's staff, I'd just love it if we could get some cool stuff out of you guys to get on the webcast... which will also be the jumbotron content (I think).. what a great way to get some info out there..

Now.. If we could just get Sandy Sanders to be the main PA voice! He was so amazing at Tunica, carefully explaining everything he said to the new audience! Without seeming like he really was educating.. it was just so slick how he wove historical information into each airplane or pilot he described.. Guy's a frickin genius!

Anyway, I'm sort of pumped and wanted to throw out the idea..



:sorry I had to edit this post, had more to say.. I really am pumped!

[T J Johansen]

Re: Biggest airplane ever to race?

As others have mentioned the DC-7 is the largest racer there was. I saw Vern Raburn's C-121 "win" a race at an airshow in Marana, AZ years ago, but that was not a sanctioned race, and in fact the Connie cheated...

As for A-26s, in the post- Cleveland era there has been a few. John Lear at Reno in the white 26 N3328G now in Australia, Wally McDonnell in the all- black N2852G at Mojave 70, then later in the silver K model "The Mojave Kid" at the same venue. Lloyd Hamilton in #16 N500M at Mojave 71, Dwight Reimer in N8036E "Cotton Jenny" at Mojave 79 and Reno in 1980, and Tired Iron's N4959K Puss & Boots in 85.

T J