Tiger... just wow

[440_Magnum]

Haven't posted much over the weekend, though I checked in regularly and watched the live feeds a lot. Obviously team Voodoo executed their playbook to perfection... again... and all congratulations are in order. I get the feeling that even when challenged by Tiger we didn't see everything that she was capable of like we would have had that been the last lap of the Gold and not the silver.

But I have to tip my hat to Tiger. He *carried* that Mustang on his back during the Saturday silver the same way Lyle used to carry the Bearcat when he had to. Strega obviously didn't have the time and testing and big-picture program to beat Voodoo this year, but by sheer force of will Tiger came within a gnat's lash of winning a heat race anyway. Amazing guy. I was one of the ones who was skeptical as to whether he should have tried... and crow never tasted so good.

His subsequent DQ was unfortunate, but ultimately mattered a lot less than Thom's DQ as the Witch was mortally wounded by the time she crossed the line anyway. I understand that rules have to be enforced, but its clear the process isn't what it should be yet. If the pilots are going to be held to such a constrained donut of space around the course, then its time to put technology to work (cameras, laser range finders, precision differential GPS on each airframe, etc.) to detect deviations from the allowed course and eliminate the human error factor. The stakes are just too high for a judgement call- it turns the whole thing into figure skating. And that's all I gotta say about that.

[CanIFlyIt]

Re: Tiger... just wow

I was one of the ones who was skeptical as to whether he should have tried... and crow never tasted so good.

Totally agree...same here!

[Jim58]

Re: Tiger... just wow

440 mag,

I totally agree with Everything you wrote........I have always been a Round Engine fan...you guess who....

Tiger's display on Saturday was Amazing feat of skill and sheer determination....if he is truly "Retired" he will be missed, by the sport and the fans.

Thom and team PM Got robbed by a "Judgement" call.

[Fence Sence]

Re: Tiger... just wow

I just talked to Tiger about an hour ago. I wouldn't count him out yet.

[AcroGimp]

Re: Tiger... just wow

As someone who quietly wondered about the wisdom of Tiger's push to climb back into The Witch I have to say I was wrong to do so, he flew an amazing series of races and the finish on Saturday was epic, if not also incredibly disappointing with the DQ combined with a Merlin meltdown.

Tiger clearly won the race and made what has been for me the last few years a somewhat boring/predestined Unlimited Heat and Unlimited Gold series pretty damn exciting.

With Tiger's DQ on Saturday and the even more puzzling DQ of Thom on Sunday I am concerned that we are again not listening to the guys who actually fly these machines around the course - I recall the concerns being expressed leading up to the races in '12 explicitly covering the actual issue Thom has been accused of - the old Unlimited Class was disolved as a result, or at least in part. It is troubling to me.

'Gimp

[CJAM427]

Re: Tiger... just wow

Haven't posted much over the weekend, though I checked in regularly and watched the live feeds a lot. Obviously team Voodoo executed their playbook to perfection... again... and all congratulations are in order. I get the feeling that even when challenged by Tiger we didn't see everything that she was capable of like we would have had that been the last lap of the Gold and not the silver.

But I have to tip my hat to Tiger. He *carried* that Mustang on his back during the Saturday silver the same way Lyle used to carry the Bearcat when he had to. Strega obviously didn't have the time and testing and big-picture program to beat Voodoo this year, but by sheer force of will Tiger came within a gnat's lash of winning a heat race anyway. Amazing guy. I was one of the ones who was skeptical as to whether he should have tried... and crow never tasted so good.

His subsequent DQ was unfortunate, but ultimately mattered a lot less than Thom's DQ as the Witch was mortally wounded by the time she crossed the line anyway. I understand that rules have to be enforced, but its clear the process isn't what it should be yet. If the pilots are going to be held to such a constrained donut of space around the course, then its time to put technology to work (cameras, laser range finders, precision differential GPS on each airframe, etc.) to detect deviations from the allowed course and eliminate the human error factor. The stakes are just too high for a judgement call- it turns the whole thing into figure skating. And that's all I gotta say about that.

Echoing everyone else's comments, that could not have been stated any better.

I will admit I questioned Tiger's decision to climb back in, and I am so glad he proved me wrong in a big way! It was truly inspiring to see him absolutely fly (no pun intended) around the course on the first lap during the Saturday race. And then that finish, I'm still in shock!

As far as the DQ's are considered, something has got to change!
I cannot express how much grief I feel for team PM, to have worked that hard only to be robbed in the end.
What boggles my mind is that there can't be an appeal or anything. It's one thing to say you didn't make a cut, but when there is video evidence, come on!!!

I talked to Thom this morning, and I cannot say enough about much of a class act he truly is. He could have said so many negative things about the DQ, but he simply didn't. The team as a whole deserves so much better than this.

Wish there was something I could do about it!

[Race5]

Re: Tiger... just wow

I hope someone will bring her back and give Shanholtzer a chance to prove the failure point wasn't anything to do with his engine building.

[KAHNZILLA]

Re: Tiger... just wow

Did not know until reading these posts about Precious Metal, his 3rd place was a good high point for the week, man. KC

[SkyvanDelta]

Re: Tiger... just wow

... If the pilots are going to be held to such a constrained donut of space around the course, then its time to put technology to work (cameras, laser range finders, precision differential GPS on each airframe, etc.) to detect deviations from the allowed course and eliminate the human error factor. The stakes are just too high for a judgement call- it turns the whole thing into figure skating. And that's all I gotta say about that.

When they raced the 72 foot Americas Cup 50mph Boats in the San Francisco Bay last year, all the boats had GPS units on them and they were used to determine when and where a boat was coming close to the course lines. It worked for them. Not sure how it would work at 450mph.

Stan Honey, a San Francisco Bay Sailor and the man who invented the superimposed first down line in football was the man in charge of all that was done with the Americas Boats GPS. He would know the answer to all these questions. Somebody contact him and ask him to answer the question: Can it be done on 450mph airplanes, how long would it take to set up and how much would it cost?

"Here's a quiz: 1. Who is the father of consumer on-screen navigation, including the automotive navigation systems used around the world? 2. Who invented the technology that displays the first-down line on your TV in American Football, the "glowing" hockey pucks and baseballs, and the real-time "player cards" in international football (soccer)? 3. Who is the most sought after navigator in professional sailing? The answer to all three questions is: Stan Honey."

"...has developed a system to track the America's Cup boats to within 2cm (or 0.787402-inch), 5 times per second. The program then quickly superimposes graphics, such as ahead-behind lines, on the live helicopter footage of the race to help viewers follow the action of the AC45s and AC72s as they soar around the racecourse."

"And then my career has been in electrical engineering, working in vehicle navigation, and remote sensoring, and tracking and highlighting systems for sports. I worked at SRI international, which did a lot of government research for a number of years. Then I started a company called ETAK, who pioneered vehicle navigation, you know the moving map displays for cars - ETAK is now part of TomTom. Then I started a company called Sportvision that does the yellow first down line in football, and does the tracking of the NASCAR cars and IRL, and does the tracking of baseballs in televised baseball."

video and story: http://techcrunch.com/2013/09/05/ame...eo-stan-honey/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportvision

http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Sally-and-Stan-Honey-America-s-Cup-couple-4740976.php#page-1

https://www.sportvision.com/news/stan-honey-revolutionized-tv-football-first-he-confused-heck-out-everyone

http://www.boatus.com/magazine/2012/october/Stan-Honey-Game-Changer.asp

[Samuel]

Re: Tiger... just wow

Isn't what they are doing already with the onboard telemetry?

[Mluvara]

Re: Tiger... just wow

Isn't what they are doing already with the onboard telemetry?

Civilian GPS does not work well at 500mph and 4 g's, so you will not have accurate data.

Michael

[Arctic Cat]

Re: Tiger... just wow

Civilian GPS does not work well at 500mph and 4 g's, so you will not have accurate data.

Michael

I can understand that when traveling 3000 feet per second the sampling rate might not give accurate location. Why or how does the high G effect the units?

[Mluvara]

Re: Tiger... just wow

I can understand that when traveling 3000 feet per second the sampling rate might not give accurate location. Why or how does the high G effect the units?

The government has put in place COCOM limits on exportable GPS receivers. They do not want people building missiles with them. Because of this, there is filtering on the data that is output from the receiver. All of the receivers I have used at Reno have a limit that is around 4g's. Basically, if the receiver thinks it moved in one direction too fast, it gives out an invalid solution. Part of this also relates to the bank angle of the aircraft and the view of available satellites.

Perhaps there is something that will work in this environment, but I have not used one and I'm not willing to try a $20,000 gps receiver experiment out of my pocket to find out. I spoke with someone who is working with the Red Bull air races and since they are pulling 8-10 g's, it's the same.

Michael

[440_Magnum]

Re: Tiger... just wow

The government has put in place COCOM limits on exportable GPS receivers. They do not want people building missiles with them. Because of this, there is filtering on the data that is output from the receiver. All of the receivers I have used at Reno have a limit that is around 4g's. Basically, if the receiver thinks it moved in one direction too fast, it gives out an invalid solution.

Perhaps there is something that will work in this environment, but I have not used one and I'm not willing to try a $20,000 gps receiver experiment out of my pocket to find out. I spoke with someone who is working with the Red Bull air races and since they are pulling 8-10 g's, it's the same.

Michael

There are other options, too. Its been a little while since I worked on any of this, but if you have a FIXED reference GPS receiver station (even a relatively cheap one), then the mobile stations can use it as one of their inputs in differential GPS mode- a term that used to be popular for the fixed station was "pseudolite," clever huh? When they're operating in that mode using real satellite data combined with a fixed station, you can get extremely accurate and quick geolocation without any special selective availability codes, so long as you're not too far away from the "pseudolite" station.

Like I said, its been 10+ years since I helped a co-worker set up a system like that and the whole GPS constellation and processing scheme has been updated at least a little since then, but we were getting centimeter-sized watch-circles out of the mobile stations. The big unknowns for something like Reno would be the possibility of drop-outs at longer ranges from the base station, accuracy degradation due to speed and antenna vibration, and things like that. I would never argue that its a case of "go buy some cheap receivers and throw them in the airplanes," but I honestly think its a whole lot less than the $20k per unit high-end receivers. I could see each complete aircraft data *package* including inertial components and telemetry (or logging for post-processing) package being on the order of $20- $30k, but since they could be standardized and re-issued for each race you would only need enough for the size of a heat plus spares and alternates. How painful is a couple hundred k$ relative to the total cost of putting on the show?

Its all about cost/benefit. If a case could be made that it would sufficiently benefit the sport, the tech is there to do it. If its cheaper to pay for more spotters and some ground-based tech in place, that would be the way to go. I'm afraid the current thinking is that its plenty affordable to just risk unfairly penalizing a couple of teams per year and say "sorry, but that's just tough." :-/

[Mluvara]

Re: Tiger... just wow

There are other options, too. Its been a little while since I worked on any of this, but if you have a FIXED reference GPS receiver station (even a relatively cheap one), then the mobile stations can use it as one of their inputs in differential GPS mode- a term that used to be popular for the fixed station was "pseudolite," clever huh? When they're operating in that mode using real satellite data combined with a fixed station, you can get extremely accurate and quick geolocation without any special selective availability codes, so long as you're not too far away from the "pseudolite" station.

Like I said, its been 10+ years since I helped a co-worker set up a system like that and the whole GPS constellation and processing scheme has been updated at least a little since then, but we were getting centimeter-sized watch-circles out of the mobile stations. The big unknowns for something like Reno would be the possibility of drop-outs at longer ranges from the base station, accuracy degradation due to speed and antenna vibration, and things like that. I would never argue that its a case of "go buy some cheap receivers and throw them in the airplanes," but I honestly think its a whole lot less than the $20k per unit high-end receivers. I could see each complete aircraft data *package* including inertial components and telemetry (or logging for post-processing) package being on the order of $20- $30k, but since they could be standardized and re-issued for each race you would only need enough for the size of a heat plus spares and alternates. How painful is a couple hundred k$ relative to the total cost of putting on the show?

Its all about cost/benefit. If a case could be made that it would sufficiently benefit the sport, the tech is there to do it. If its cheaper to pay for more spotters and some ground-based tech in place, that would be the way to go. I'm afraid the current thinking is that its plenty affordable to just risk unfairly penalizing a couple of teams per year and say "sorry, but that's just tough." :-/

Perhaps something like that could work. However, a huge part of the problem is the software filtering in the individual receiver. No matter if it has 12 satellites, it still will not put out a valid solution if the software filtering is in place.

Michael