If Rare Bear can do 528...

[grampi]

Re: If Rare Bear can do 528...

Yes, and the bearcat shattered its record.

My point is, if the Red Baron could carry enough fluids to make the attempt, then planes like Voodoo, Strega, and PM can too...so I don't get these comments saying the Mustang can't carry enough fluids to make the attempt...

[grampi]

Re: If Rare Bear can do 528...

I am curious why we still end up coming back around to the same old 'discussions' from the same old parties on all sides?

Here's the bottom line, there are a handful of racers that are capable of breaking the Bear's retired 3km record. But theoretical speed doesn't mean anything if you don't get it in the record books. And until somebody ponies up the money and resources to actually go DO it, it's all speculation. What one party has personally seen in testing is just as valid (or trivial) as what a rail-bird thinks should be...because neither of them, nor anything in between, counts until someone actually DOES it.

In Unlimited hydroplane racing Roy Duby went out and set the mile speed record in 1962 at just over 200 mph. And when he did it he was on the ragged edge and almost lost it several times. It was a record that over the next forty years was untouched. It's not that people never tried. It should have been easy with the leaps in design technology. In fact, in a 15 year span five different teams attempted it and all failed. Of those, the Squire Shop and Red Man teams had 2nd-tier equipment and had a marginal chance at best. But three of them...Harrah's Tahoe Miss, Pride of Pay'n Pak, and Miss Budweiser (twice)...had the best drivers, top notch equipment, and deep pockets available to them. The Miss Budweiser team should have had it in the bag in 1979, but records are records for a reason and by definition aren't easy to break...because if they were, anyone could go do it. That attempt ended in a totally destroyed boat and a driver that was nearly killed.

By the 1990's, the boats were easily hitting 200 mph on the race course at the end of the chutes and everyone agreed that it 'should in theory' be easy to go out and pick the record off. There were a lot of people who talked big, but nobody actually went out and DID it.

The team that I was on at the time actually went out and did it. We broke the record by the required percentage. Not by much, but enough to get the record. And then you know what happened? All the other teams in the pits came out and said "Yeah, well that was kind of low-hanging fruit....would could've gone out there and gone faster". Point is...they didn't. Until you DO, what you think your team is capable of is just talk.

So in theory Strega or Voodoo or Rare Bear or 232, or who knows...maybe even Precious Metal, COULD go out and break the record. They're probably CAPABLE of it. But until they do, Lyle's 529 will the mark to beat...whether it's retired or not. Arguing and debating endlessly of whether someone can or can't without doing it is pointless.

I guess I keep bringing up the subject because I'm puzzled as to why no one ever attempts to break the record...I think most of us agree (except for a few delusional ones) there are planes that are capable of breaking the record, but they never try...yes I'm aware of the monumental costs involved in making a record run, but lets face it, anyone who can afford to own, fly, and maintain a warbird is wealthy beyond what most of us will ever see in our lifetimes...they can afford it...

[Big_Jim]

Re: If Rare Bear can do 528...

I guess I keep bringing up the subject because I'm puzzled as to why no one ever attempts to break the record...I think most of us agree (except for a few delusional ones) there are planes that are capable of breaking the record, but they never try...yes I'm aware of the monumental costs involved in making a record run, but lets face it, anyone who can afford to fly and maintain a warbird is wealthy beyond what most of us will ever see in our lifetimes...they can afford it...

Have you considered that perhaps its just not that important to 'them'?

[grampi]

Re: If Rare Bear can do 528...

Have you considered that perhaps its just not that important to 'them'?

I don't know how you can be involved in air racing to the point you spend an entire year, every year pouring all of your time and money into the sport and not be interested in the record...

[badman]

Re: If Rare Bear can do 528...

I don't know how you can be involved in air racing to the point you spend an entire year, every year pouring all of your time and money into the sport and not be interested in the record...

I think there is a difference between what Big Jim said - its not IMPORTANT enough, and your statement about lack of INTEREST. I think all these teams are interested in the record - that's why they keep talking about it. I think what Big Jim is saying is that none of these teams have felt getting the record was important enough to commit the time and money to get it. I think part of determining the importance aspect is the timing - since the best shot at breaking the record weather wise occurs in the Summer months - right before Reno. So, a team would have to gear up for a record attempt in August (that's the month the last 3 3km record holders flew) and then be ready to turn around and get to Reno. How many race engines do they need to have for all of this, assuming you may loose one in the record attempt? Do you just sacrifice not showing up at all for Reno that year to try to get the record, or accept your chances to win the Championship may be handicapped from the get-go?

There have been a number of very well funded teams that made plans that fell through for one reason or another to get the 3km record (such as Jeannie, Dago Red, Tsunami, Rare Bear [when the whole engine/pilot/team thing exploded]).

[Mluvara]

Re: If Rare Bear can do 528...

I don't know how you can be involved in air racing to the point you spend an entire year, every year pouring all of your time and money into the sport and not be interested in the record...

Teams are interested. They talk about it. However, it is not an easy record. It takes much of the year to field a competitive gold racer just to get to Reno. Try doubling that effort to run two Reno's within TWO months. The Voodoo crew spent 10 months to get the airplane ready for Reno 2014. The engine guy rebuilt three motors in that time.

Remember that the teams are essentially made up of volunteers. They have daily lives, families, jobs, responsibilities. They have limited vacation. You're asking them to take off more of their personal time for a record? Just getting to Reno can be a big enough sacrifice.

I really wish someone would do a documentary of what it takes to get to Reno and follow a gold team for six months. What I've witnessed the past ten years being on several unlimited teams would boggle your mind. It's no easy task.

Michael

[Desertdawg]

Re: If Rare Bear can do 528...

I really wish someone would do a documentary of what it takes to get to Reno and follow a gold team for six months.

Hey your on to something young man. A new reality show - or soap opera :-)

Possible names:

The Days of Our Pilots
or
As the Prop Turns
or
The Secrets of Hanger Talk

Wayne could make cameo appearances.

[grampi]

Re: If Rare Bear can do 528...

Someone wanting to make an attempt at the record could skip Reno that year and just focus on the record...

[thunderstangfan]

Re: If Rare Bear can do 528...

Someone wanting to make an attempt at the record could skip Reno that year and just focus on the record...

you might be on to something! I bet that thought never occurred to "someone"

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Re: If Rare Bear can do 528...

Hey your on to something young man. A new reality show - or soap opera :-)

Possible names:

The Days of Our Pilots
or
As the Prop Turns
or
The Secrets of Hanger Talk

Wayne could make cameo appearances.

It's in the works. It's called Seven Days in September.

[ChrisMX105]

Re: If Rare Bear can do 528...

Someone wanting to make an attempt at the record could skip Reno that year and just focus on the record...

Or they could be a Boss like Lyle and set the record then win Reno...........................

Air Racing after all is...........

Simple
Cheap
and Easy.

[1:1 Scale]

Re: If Rare Bear can do 528...

Someone wanting to make an attempt at the record could skip Reno that year and just focus on the record...

Or someone could divert their energy from suggesting what priorities someone else could have, and how they spend their (always) limited money, and focus their own energy to making enough money to buy an airplane and assemble a team, and go after the record themselves if it's so important

Hypothetically speaking, of course....

[jarrodeu]

Re: If Rare Bear can do 528...

At least with Reno there is a chance to get part of your expenses paid for.

Jarrod

[Arctic Cat]

Re: If Rare Bear can do 528...

Or someone could divert their energy from suggesting what priorities someone else could have, and how they spend their (always) limited money, and focus their own energy to making enough money to buy an airplane and assemble a team, and go after the record themselves if it's so important

Hypothetically speaking, of course....

No its just not that important, and its really a hard thing to do! I'm catchin your sarcasm.

[1:1 Scale]

Re: If Rare Bear can do 528...

I don't know why this thread has been stuck in my head so much today (ok, maybe I do), but I thought this quote from some old dead guy fits the topic quite well:

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.