Any word on Precious Metal yet??

[Big_Jim]

Re: Any word on Precious Metal yet??

Jim

Are you saying that RARA would sell commercial time to whomever would be willing to pay the highest fees? And this would be the commercials we would see during the 1 hour show? So who would be willing to pay for it? Airplane Insurance Companies, Airplane Manufacturers like Cessna, Beechcraft, Property Developers with homes on airports?

Or AM/PM, or Summer's Eve, or My Pillow.com, or RC Cola, or whomever they can sell the airtime to. And don't fool yourself with the 'highest fees'...it would be RARA approaching the companies trying to sell commercial's for a set price that the total of which would at a minimum cover the cost of buying the time from NBC. It wouldn't surprise me too much if there is at least one Breitling commercial that broadcasts.

I seem to recall when the races were on ESPN back in 1998 (the last time I remember broadcast coverage) Lancair had a couple of commercials, because they were the title sponsor of the Sport Class at the time.

[SkyvanDelta]

Re: Any word on Precious Metal yet??

That's great news, saw the truck on the facebook page, nice truck.

Now let's the back to helicopter sling loading damaged airplanes and having NBC TV covering it with the various sponsors either buying or selling time.

I thought the Helicopter lift was a great idea. Why take 4-6 people 1 week to disassemble when you can lift it and bring it home in one piece? What's the cost, $10,000 for the lift? You'll have to spend 1/2 that in food, gas, hotel costs, truck rental and crew time.

Selling the rights to film the recovery is another great idea for income and would add to the TV show.The crew is working and might as well video it.

Somebody call the closest Skycrane and ask them their costs.

[Race5]

Re: Any word on Precious Metal yet??

I thought the Helicopter lift was a great idea. Why take 4-6 people 1 week to disassemble when you can lift it and bring it home in one piece? What's the cost, $10,000 for the lift? You'll have to spend 1/2 that in food, gas, hotel costs, truck rental and crew time.

Selling the rights to film the recovery is another great idea for income and would add to the TV show.The crew is working and might as well video it.

Somebody call the closest Skycrane and ask them their costs.

What part of attempting to airlift it would most likely destroy it are you not understanding? The crew are professionals. Let them handle it in the way they see fit.

[SkyvanDelta]

Re: Any word on Precious Metal yet??

What part of attempting to airlift it would most likely destroy it are you not understanding? The crew are professionals. Let them handle it in the way they see fit.

Calm down. We're just speculating here.

Now if you built a frame that supported the entire plane, there would be minimal stress to it...

Hello, Florida Skycrane? I have a P51 Mustang with a Griffin engine that has been exposed to fire damage in the front area. How much would you charge and what's involved to fly it an hour away in mid Florida? There, it's done. Now we just wait for a Skycrane owner/pilot to come strolling along.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Any word on Precious Metal yet??

Probably, the use of a lifting body, (helo, blimp... whatever) would only make sense if the aircraft was located where the heavy equipment needed to secure it to transport jigs necessary to TRUCK it could not gain access.

Probably never makes sense to use more than what's necessary when moving anything.. (30 years in rigging and moving freight on flatbeds here)

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Any word on Precious Metal yet??

Everything will be documented. We will be posting progress over the weekend on the fan page. Maybe here as well

<snip> Wow Thom, that would really be appreciated! There are still many of us who are simply uncomfortable with the amount of personal data that FB collects from its members/visitors... annnnd, we're still trying to keep this place as a central "hub" if you will, where the teams can be sure that pretty much everyone in the sport will see what's going on. We can give you a separate section if you like... I've had a nasty health issue over the past week that's kept me from doing anything productive but I'm getting back up to speed and want to help you guys figure ways to fund this process...</snip>

<snip>And please keep up the banter, you're hilarious! </snip> *sigh*

[toldjaso]

Re: Any word on Precious Metal yet??

That's great news, saw the truck on the facebook page, nice truck.

Now let's get back to helicopter sling loading damaged airplanes and having NBC TV covering it with the various sponsors either buying or selling time.

The helicopter sling loads I was referring to in my posts were paid for courtesy of the US taxpayers.

I contacted the Army National Guard last fall to see about using a CH-47 Chinook to airlift an airplane 10 miles for me, so I would not have to take it apart to move it. It was too heavy for a UH-60 Blackhawk, and it was too big to truck it without de-mating the center section from the fuselage. They would not do it because of liability reasons, they said they might drop it on some farmer's shed or something.
They used to do this sometimes, 30 years or so ago. They used to call it training.

[gp70442]

Re: Any word on Precious Metal yet??

Calm down. We're just speculating here.

Uh, dreaming. It's just not a realistic scenario for a variety of reasons which have already been stated.

GP

[SkyvanDelta]

Re: Any word on Precious Metal yet??

I'm dreaming here so take it for what it's worth. I go to Google and search "how much does it cost to rent a skycrane helicopter." So from two different sources, the range for a Skycrane or Chinook is somewhere around $7,500-15,000 per hour.

and get these results from here: https://www.google.com/search?q=how+...ane+helicopter

Here are the two different pages on answers:

That depends on the kind of helicopter, what you are going to do, where you are going to use it, and how much flying you want to do.

The smallest and cheapest commercial helicopter is the Robinson R22 and it is going to cost you about US $300-400 per hour including fuel and a pilot. It will have seating capacity for just one passenger and pretty well zilch for cargo.

The next size up will be a Bell 206 Jet Ranger or Eurocopter AS350 series, seating the pilot plus 4-6 people, and that is going to cost in the range of $1000-1500 per hour. This class of helicopter is turbine powered and is by far the most popular size in Europe, North America, and Australia, for example.

If you still need more passengers or you need more than about 400-700 kg of cargo moved, then you need to start looking at things like the Augusta A119 or Bell 205, and they are going to cost in the range $2000-3000 per hour. You can still go bigger, like the Sikorsky S61, Sikorsky S64 SkyCrane, or Boeing Chinook, but you'd better be ready to shell out $8000 to $15,000 per hour.

Then you have to look at positioning, waiting time, and minimums on top of the hourly rate. If you have a lot of flying to do in a small amount of time (for example 70 hours in one week on a construction job), and its off-season for the helicopter operator's regular work, you can probably save quite a bit of money.

Helicopters are the greatest flying machine ever invented (I'm a little biased!) but they have thousands of moving parts that require very careful maintnenance, inspections, and overhauls and that maeans they are expensive. Plus experienced pilots with the skills to get the job done and fuel don't come cheap!

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Straight Dope Message Board > Main > General Questions > Would you believe I have a helicopter question?
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View Full Version : Would you believe I have a helicopter question?

Johnny L.A.
08-20-2001, 12:23 PM
I'm on holiday so I may not be able to check for an answer for a while.

I've been watching coverage of the fires in the Pacific Northwest and the news said that the Chinook and Skycrane helicopters are costing the state of Oregon $9,000 per hour each. Now the helis I fly are considerably smaller and cost $180 per hour. How much does it actually cost to operate a Chinook or a Skycrane? Are the people of Oregon being reemed; or is $9,000/hr. a fair price for such a complex helicopter and the extremely experienced crews that fly them?

(Hm. Sounds like a Great Debate. But the GQ is "How much does it cost to operate a large helicopter?")
ElvisL1ves
08-20-2001, 12:37 PM
Virtually all the civilian Chinooks and Sea Knights now in service are operated by Columbia Helicopters (http://www.colheli.com). Most Sky Cranes belong to [url=http://www.erickson-aircrane.com/]Erickson Air Crane[url]. As prospering private companies, they aren't likely to tell us much about their costs, just their prices (which are their customers' costs, and maybe that's what you see). As virtual monopolies, with customers who are generally willing to pay for their unique capabilities, they can charge pretty high rates anyway.

These are more complicated machines by far than your Robertson, they take much more maintenance, they've been out of production for a long time so parts volume is low, and the overall acquisition cost for each was pretty high to start with. Spare parts markups from the manufacturers are pretty steep (I work for one). Few civilian pilots are type-rated in them, few mechanics are qualified on them, and they don't work for free.

Etc.
Colibri
08-20-2001, 12:37 PM
I can't give you an authoritative answer, but at I site I worked on in 1997-8 in Peru, a natural gas field being developed by Shell, they used Chinooks to ferry big equipment to the test wells. We were told the Chinook cost "$10,000 every time it left the ground." People and supplies were sent in by smaller choppers.
Triskadecamus
08-20-2001, 12:37 PM
More people, more maintenance, and such, sure.

But, I think one of the other factors is that you just don't get as many "paid hours" per capital investment dollar, over the lifetime of the craft. That would multiply the effective cost of all the other differences.

Tris
-----------------
"No flying machine will ever fly from New York to Paris ... [because] no known motor can run at the requisite speed for four days without stopping." ~ Orville Wright ~
ElvisL1ves
08-20-2001, 12:39 PM
Fixed link:
Most Sky Cranes belong to Erickson Air Crane (http://www.erickson-aircrane.com/)

Also, you fly a Robinson, not a Robertson, right? Different firm. Sorry.
Ringo
08-20-2001, 12:41 PM
Well, I found a CH54D Skycrane operating out of Cougar, Washington available for $7,400/hr.
Sam Stone
08-20-2001, 02:38 PM
Actually, I would have thought that $9,000 per hour for a Chinook was a low estimate. Those things are huge maintenance hogs, and burn an ungodly amount of fuel. A Hercules which burns much less gas and is way easier on maintenance costs about $6,000 per hour. Of course, that's military money, so you can figure that private operation would be somewhat cheaper.

[toldjaso]

Re: Any word on Precious Metal yet??

I'm dreaming here so take it for what it's worth. I go to Google and search "how much does it cost to rent a skycrane helicopter." So from two different sources, the range for a Skycrane or Chinook is somewhere around $7,500-15,000 per hour.

and get these results from here: https://www.google.com/search?q=how+...ane+helicopter

Here are the two different pages on answers:

That depends on the kind of helicopter, what you are going to do, where you are going to use it, and how much flying you want to do.

The smallest and cheapest commercial helicopter is the Robinson R22 and it is going to cost you about US $300-400 per hour including fuel and a pilot. It will have seating capacity for just one passenger and pretty well zilch for cargo.

The next size up will be a Bell 206 Jet Ranger or Eurocopter AS350 series, seating the pilot plus 4-6 people, and that is going to cost in the range of $1000-1500 per hour. This class of helicopter is turbine powered and is by far the most popular size in Europe, North America, and Australia, for example.

If you still need more passengers or you need more than about 400-700 kg of cargo moved, then you need to start looking at things like the Augusta A119 or Bell 205, and they are going to cost in the range $2000-3000 per hour. You can still go bigger, like the Sikorsky S61, Sikorsky S64 SkyCrane, or Boeing Chinook, but you'd better be ready to shell out $8000 to $15,000 per hour.

Then you have to look at positioning, waiting time, and minimums on top of the hourly rate. If you have a lot of flying to do in a small amount of time (for example 70 hours in one week on a construction job), and its off-season for the helicopter operator's regular work, you can probably save quite a bit of money.

Helicopters are the greatest flying machine ever invented (I'm a little biased!) but they have thousands of moving parts that require very careful maintnenance, inspections, and overhauls and that maeans they are expensive. Plus experienced pilots with the skills to get the job done and fuel don't come cheap!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Straight Dope Message Board > Main > General Questions > Would you believe I have a helicopter question?
PDA
View Full Version : Would you believe I have a helicopter question?

Johnny L.A.
08-20-2001, 12:23 PM
I'm on holiday so I may not be able to check for an answer for a while.

I've been watching coverage of the fires in the Pacific Northwest and the news said that the Chinook and Skycrane helicopters are costing the state of Oregon $9,000 per hour each. Now the helis I fly are considerably smaller and cost $180 per hour. How much does it actually cost to operate a Chinook or a Skycrane? Are the people of Oregon being reemed; or is $9,000/hr. a fair price for such a complex helicopter and the extremely experienced crews that fly them?

(Hm. Sounds like a Great Debate. But the GQ is "How much does it cost to operate a large helicopter?")
ElvisL1ves
08-20-2001, 12:37 PM
Virtually all the civilian Chinooks and Sea Knights now in service are operated by Columbia Helicopters (http://www.colheli.com). Most Sky Cranes belong to [url=http://www.erickson-aircrane.com/]Erickson Air Crane[url]. As prospering private companies, they aren't likely to tell us much about their costs, just their prices (which are their customers' costs, and maybe that's what you see). As virtual monopolies, with customers who are generally willing to pay for their unique capabilities, they can charge pretty high rates anyway.

These are more complicated machines by far than your Robertson, they take much more maintenance, they've been out of production for a long time so parts volume is low, and the overall acquisition cost for each was pretty high to start with. Spare parts markups from the manufacturers are pretty steep (I work for one). Few civilian pilots are type-rated in them, few mechanics are qualified on them, and they don't work for free.

Etc.
Colibri
08-20-2001, 12:37 PM
I can't give you an authoritative answer, but at I site I worked on in 1997-8 in Peru, a natural gas field being developed by Shell, they used Chinooks to ferry big equipment to the test wells. We were told the Chinook cost "$10,000 every time it left the ground." People and supplies were sent in by smaller choppers.
Triskadecamus
08-20-2001, 12:37 PM
More people, more maintenance, and such, sure.

But, I think one of the other factors is that you just don't get as many "paid hours" per capital investment dollar, over the lifetime of the craft. That would multiply the effective cost of all the other differences.

Tris
-----------------
"No flying machine will ever fly from New York to Paris ... [because] no known motor can run at the requisite speed for four days without stopping." ~ Orville Wright ~
ElvisL1ves
08-20-2001, 12:39 PM
Fixed link:
Most Sky Cranes belong to Erickson Air Crane (http://www.erickson-aircrane.com/)

Also, you fly a Robinson, not a Robertson, right? Different firm. Sorry.
Ringo
08-20-2001, 12:41 PM
Well, I found a CH54D Skycrane operating out of Cougar, Washington available for $7,400/hr.
Sam Stone
08-20-2001, 02:38 PM
Actually, I would have thought that $9,000 per hour for a Chinook was a low estimate. Those things are huge maintenance hogs, and burn an ungodly amount of fuel. A Hercules which burns much less gas and is way easier on maintenance costs about $6,000 per hour. Of course, that's military money, so you can figure that private operation would be somewhat cheaper.

And if any of them have a problem, they will pickle the load in a second! (That means cut it loose and drop it from any where it is, for those of us who don't know helio speak) !

[SkyvanDelta]

Re: Any word on Precious Metal yet??

And if any of them have a problem, they will pickle the load in a second! (That means cut it loose and drop it from any where it is, for those of us who don't know helio speak) !

The odds of intentionally dropping the load is fairly small, correct? I don't know what they are, maybe 1 in 10,000 or 1 in 100,000? Maybe similar to a large truck running into and damaging Precious Metal while it's being transported by truck. So the odds are about the same whether you fly it or truck it, fairly small.

[toldjaso]

Re: Any word on Precious Metal yet??

The odds of intentionally dropping the load is fairly small, correct? I don't know what they are, maybe 1 in 10,000 or 1 in 100,000? Maybe similar to a large truck running into and damaging Precious Metal while it's being transported by truck. So the odds are about the same whether you fly it or truck it, fairly small.

True, but you get a lot more free press coverage from dropping an airplane from a helicopter than you ever will from a simple traffic accident!

[SkyvanDelta]

Re: Any word on Precious Metal yet??

Probably, the use of a lifting body, (helo, blimp... whatever) would only make sense if the aircraft was located where the heavy equipment needed to secure it to transport jigs necessary to TRUCK it could not gain access.

Probably never makes sense to use more than what's necessary when moving anything.. (30 years in rigging and moving freight on flatbeds here)

You're on the right track. Why use a Skycrane with all its moving parts and expensive turbine engines when you can use a blimp with less moving parts and a lower operating cost?

Hello Goodyear? We have Mustang with a Griffon motor that needs to be lifted in central Florida. What are the costs and what do we need to know before we start?

[toldjaso]

Re: Any word on Precious Metal yet??

You're on the right track. Why use a Skycrane with all its moving parts and expensive turbine engines when you can use a blimp with less moving parts and a lower operating cost?

Hello Goodyear? We have Mustang with a Griffon motor that needs to be lifted in central Florida. What are the costs and what do we need to know before we start?

It would be cheaper to build a new hanger for PM wherever it is, and restore it on site, than most of our goofy ideas here...

[SkyvanDelta]

Re: Any word on Precious Metal yet??

It would be cheaper to build a new hanger for PM wherever it is, and restore it on site, than most of our goofy ideas here...

Best idea yet. Why move it when you can build a hanger and repair it where it is? Look at all these brilliant ideas we are coming up with. We should be paid for this.