Need Expert Advise on 500mm Lense Set-up

[Desertdawg]

I hope this will be the year I get myself a 500mm lense set-up.

I have a Nikon D7000 w/18-200mm lense, this works great for general shots.

I really want something for air racing and car racing fast action shots.

Plus the benefit is I could do my hunting with a lense vs rifle :-)

I'd like to keep this around $10,000, and have been looking at this Canon lense

http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/ef-500mm-f-4l-is-ii-usm

What are you guys using?

What would be a good camera body match for this lense?

Thank you

Hans

[GeoffS]

Re: Need Expert Advise on 500mm Lense Set-up

The 500mm f/4 IS is an excellent lens.
I use the mk1 version a lot.
The obvious companion body would be the 1Dx mk2, although it's a bit pricey.
The 7D mk2 is an excellent APS-C sensor body for action photography at a much lower price than the 1D.

Cheers,

Geoff S.

[wingman]

Re: Need Expert Advise on 500mm Lense Set-up

Whatever you decide on I would advise renting first to see how you like it. A 500mm lens is very heavy, with a lot of weight out front. I'm not strong enough to hand hold one all day.

Nikon has recently come out with a very good 200mm-500mm zoom that is getting rave reviews. The price is very reasonable and the lens is hand holdable. I personally love using the Nikon 300mm F2.8 with a TC-17E teleconverter. This combination gets me to 500mm with much less weight than a straight 500, and the weight is closer to my body which for me is very preferable. I've used this combination all day at Reno without any discomfort and the results have been spectacular.

It's also worth pointing out that a 300mm F2.8 would work very well with your D7000 and give you an effective equivalent of a 450mm lens on a full frame camera. Your D7000 is actually a pretty good little camera.

There is a company called Lensrentals that carries a vast array of rental equipment from both Nikon and that other company. They have an excellent reputation and seem to be easy to deal with.

Neal

[Big_Jim]

Re: Need Expert Advise on 500mm Lense Set-up

Whatever you decide on I would advise renting first to see how you like it. A 500mm lens is very heavy, with a lot of weight out front. I'm not strong enough to hand hold one all day.

Nikon has recently come out with a very good 200mm-500mm zoom that is getting rave reviews. The price is very reasonable and the lens is hand holdable. I personally love using the Nikon 300mm F2.8 with a TC-17E teleconverter. This combination gets me to 500mm with much less weight than a straight 500, and the weight is closer to my body which for me is very preferable. I've used this combination all day at Reno without any discomfort and the results have been spectacular.

It's also worth pointing out that a 300mm F2.8 would work very well with your D7000 and give you an effective equivalent of a 450mm lens on a full frame camera. Your D7000 is actually a pretty good little camera.

There is a company called Lensrentals that carries a vast array of rental equipment from both Nikon and that other company. They have an excellent reputation and seem to be easy to deal with.

Neal

What are the drawbacks of using the TC-17E, Neal? Since I upgraded the old iPhone....er, um...I mean, since I started shooting digital with my Nikon, I have only used a 300mm zoom. I used to have a doubler when I shot film with my old Canon 30 years ago, before I went on my video walkabout. Back then the doubler cut the shutter speed and ap settings in half. Do they still have that same effect these days with the digital stuff?

[wingman]

Re: Need Expert Advise on 500mm Lense Set-up

Modern name brand teleconverters are really very good -- especially the ones from Nikon. They do exact a penalty in lens speed/ aperture. I own a 300mm f4, and regularly use a 1.4x converter which gives an effective aperture of 5.6 and an effective focal length of 420mm. The photos with this combo are outstanding and the combination is quite light and handholdable. F5.6 is pretty much the limit for modern autofocus systems to work well, as well as give a reasonably bright view through the viewfinder.

At Reno when Nikon was there I always had them bring a Nikon 300mm F2.8 lens for me to use. This lens was unpopular with a lot of the folks because everybody thought the exotics like the 400mm F2.8, 500mm F4, 200-400mm F4 etc were more cool. Those suckers are all just too big and too front heavy for anybody but young fireplug weight lifters like Victor and Tim Adams.

Anyway, the advantage of the F2.8 version for me was that the extra stop of maximum aperture let me use a 1.7x teleconverter to give me an effective 510mm focal length at an effective aperture of a bit better than F5.6. The results were superb and the combination was quite usable all day. I have no general need other than Reno for lenses this long so it never made sense to spend $5000 on the big 300mm, but I sure was grateful to Nikon for bringing me one to play with at Reno.

I hope all these numbers make sense to non-pros. If y'all have questions about my jargon just ask away...

Neal

[wingman]

Re: Need Expert Advise on 500mm Lense Set-up

One further note about using these very long focal lengths is that these things are NOT MAGIC. They magnify the subject but they also magnify any deficiencies in technique as well as the effect of any smog, dust in the air etc. They are really, really hard to use effectively and consistently. You absolutely cannot be casual with these things. In my experience they are pretty much unusable if I've had a couple of beers or smoked a joint for instance.

You need to be really good, really mentally focussed, really physically centered and all that to be good with lenses this long. It's just as hard as target shooting at 100 yards from a standing position. If you want results to justify spending 5 or ten grand on equipment you absolutely have to pay your dues. Photography on this level is incredibly rewarding, but it ain't easy and it takes more than money to do it well.

Practice and technique are more useful than spending money in this realm...

Neal

[wingman]

Re: Need Expert Advise on 500mm Lense Set-up

And a further note for Brad. Teleconverters do not work especially well on zoom lenses. In my experience they really should be used on high quality fixed focal length lenses like the 300s I mentioned above. I really think the best way to go for most Nikon users would be the new 200mm-500mm zoom. Less fuss and bother and lots more flexibility. It is probably the world champion at this point for reasonable priced long lens versatility.

Check out the user reviews...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?&ci=274&N=4288584247+4108103566+4261208146&origSearch=nikon%20200-500mm

[Desertdawg]

Re: Need Expert Advise on 500mm Lense Set-up

In my experience they are pretty much unusable if I've had a couple of beers or smoked a joint for instance.Neal

Oh so true LOL With the later I would imagine there be a big delay in when you see the subject and when the finger gets the signal to hit the shutter

Thanks for getting a good discussion going gents, a lot of valuable input.

I want to keep my Nikon combo as is and us it for pit/close-up shots. I'm done with changing lenses during a shoot. Plus I would like to move into the 20mb range now. So a second camera makes sense.

Neal, what about using a monopod with the large lenses?

[jarrodeu]

Re: Need Expert Advise on 500mm Lense Set-up

I believe that Nikon makes an 80-400 which is comparable to the Canon 100-400, the lens I use. Even if I had the money to spend on those big primes, I'm too lazy to lug them around. For me, the 100-400 has been enough and really even at that there is heat distortion. Plus the primes loose the versatility of the zoom lens. Just my thought.

I used lensrentals for the 7DMKII last year and was very pleased with it.

Jarrod

[wingman]

Re: Need Expert Advise on 500mm Lense Set-up

Monopod can be useful, but has real limitations. They're great if your subject is stationary on the ground, or moving across your field of view at a level. The issue for a lot of work is that if your subject's apparent height is changing, as will happen with an oncoming airplane, it is very difficult to move up and down behind the camera as well as rotate the camera right to left. The geometry of it all makes it all very difficult.

A monopod can also be difficult to maneuver in crowds -- people tend to get unhappy when you turn around quickly and whack somebody with it...

Neal

[CJAM427]

Re: Need Expert Advise on 500mm Lense Set-up

I have used the new Nikon 200-500mm twice now with my D7100, it's an incredible lens. -I rent from LensRentals and would also highly recommend them.

I think it's worth noting that although it is indeed heavy, I wouldn't say it's any heavier than Nikon's 80-400 and it's a much, much better lens anyway.

My first outing with it was at EAA's skiplane fly-in. Even in the windy frigid conditions I was still able to capture stuff at 500mm.

I used it again at the Avenger Gathering, and I got to test it in low light situations and had success with shutter speeds as low as 1/60. The VR technology in it has to be the best yet from Nikon.

Check out the EXIF data for focal length & shutter speed if you're curious.

Aeronca Power-Up by Connor Madison, on Flickr

Aeronca Snow Plow by Connor Madison, on Flickr

Snowy Departure by Connor Madison, on Flickr

Avenger Trio by Connor Madison, on Flickr

2-point by Connor Madison, on Flickr

Sunset Touchdown by Connor Madison, on Flickr

Sunset Taxi II by Connor Madison, on Flickr

[Big_Jim]

Re: Need Expert Advise on 500mm Lense Set-up

For what it's worth, the best photography advice I ever got was from some guy named Nurmi and it was this very complex concept called "F-8 and be-there".

[ignomini]

Re: Need Expert Advise on 500mm Lense Set-up

I won't pretend to be in Neil's league on general photography knowledge, but can we please put the crop factor lens length "equivalent" BS to bed once and for all. Sensor crop DOES NOT equate to increased magnification. It never has, and it never will. The assumption comes from the fact in the early days, cropped sensors generally had smaller pixels. While this could be an advantage for capturing more detail (mistaken for magnification), it often comes at a price in noise. With high resolution full frame sensors like in the Canon 5DS, even the pixel size argument is out the window. A 300mm lens on a 1.5 crop does not give the magnification of a 450 lens, it gives the narrower viewing angle of a longer lens. The image, as implied by the moniker "cropped sensor" is like a full frame image which has been cropped. That's it.

As others have stated, rent before you buy. It's a great way to determine what really works best for you. I was renting a 300 2.8 for a while, but with the v2 100-400 zoom available, that is my lens of choice on a 5D MkIII. Unless you really want to be a pro, the 5D is an excellent alternative to the big and heavy pro body. I agree with Neil's comment about teleconverters on zooms, but the 100-400 works surprisingly well at the long end with a 1.4x converter. However, I would only use this combo to get past 400mm.

[Big_Jim]

Re: Need Expert Advise on 500mm Lense Set-up

I won't pretend to be in Neil's league on general photography knowledge, but can we please put the crop factor lens length "equivalent" BS to bed once and for all. Sensor crop DOES NOT equate to increased magnification. It never has, and it never will. The assumption comes from the fact in the early days, cropped sensors generally had smaller pixels. While this could be an advantage for capturing more detail (mistaken for magnification), it often comes at a price in noise. With high resolution full frame sensors like in the Canon 5DS, even the pixel size argument is out the window. A 300mm lens on a 1.5 crop does not give the magnification of a 450 lens, it gives the narrower viewing angle of a longer lens. The image, as implied by the moniker "cropped sensor" is like a full frame image which has been cropped. That's it.

As others have stated, rent before you buy. It's a great way to determine what really works best for you. I was renting a 300 2.8 for a while, but with the v2 100-400 zoom available, that is my lens of choice on a 5D MkIII. Unless you really want to be a pro, the 5D is an excellent alternative to the big and heavy pro body. I agree with Neil's comment about teleconverters on zooms, but the 100-400 works surprisingly well at the long end with a 1.4x converter. However, I would only use this combo to get past 400mm.

You can get around all this by just taking it iPhone route.....

[T. Adams]

Re: Need Expert Advise on 500mm Lense Set-up

I won't pretend to be in Neil's league on general photography knowledge, but can we please put the crop factor lens length "equivalent" BS to bed once and for all. Sensor crop DOES NOT equate to increased magnification. It never has, and it never will. The assumption comes from the fact in the early days, cropped sensors generally had smaller pixels. While this could be an advantage for capturing more detail (mistaken for magnification), it often comes at a price in noise. With high resolution full frame sensors like in the Canon 5DS, even the pixel size argument is out the window. A 300mm lens on a 1.5 crop does not give the magnification of a 450 lens, it gives the narrower viewing angle of a longer lens. The image, as implied by the moniker "cropped sensor" is like a full frame image which has been cropped. That's it.

As others have stated, rent before you buy. It's a great way to determine what really works best for you. I was renting a 300 2.8 for a while, but with the v2 100-400 zoom available, that is my lens of choice on a 5D MkIII. Unless you really want to be a pro, the 5D is an excellent alternative to the big and heavy pro body. I agree with Neil's comment about teleconverters on zooms, but the 100-400 works surprisingly well at the long end with a 1.4x converter. However, I would only use this combo to get past 400mm.

Ok, I know this will drive you nuts, but a 500 on a crop camera gets you real close.