Idea For New Warbird Classes

[Fence Sence]

Re: Idea For New Warbird Classes

IMO, every performer/heritage/display aircraft should be required to take at least one timed lap. I wanna see the U2 turn a lap!

[WARPT]

Re: Idea For New Warbird Classes

Sometimes racers tell me that some of the things they read here are really upsetting to them.

I try to stay ahead of it and put myself in their places.

Dang WARPT, if I was one of the guys who hung their asses out there doing the best they could hoping the guy in front of them would screw up or break... I'd be really disappointed reading what you just said.

Straight up dood, you owe the entire field an apology ASAP!

OK! OK! OK! I knew I was lighting a short fuse on a stack of dynamite with that post. And I figured that I would be flamed like an F16 with full afterburner.
I'm sure others were thinking that same thought... I was the one that just threw it out there for the whole world to see.

First let me say I love the air races. I especially love the Unlimiteds. When every Unlimited race pilot and plane is introduced during the "Duck Walk" I cheer for each and every one of them.
I certainly didn't mean to insult any plane owner, race pilot, crew member or anyone else involved with fielding an Unlimited racer. I cannot begin to fathom what it takes to field one or fly one! I appreciate ALL of them.

This year there was one Unlimited that could run the FAST laps. All they had to do was run one fast lap to get a nice lead then throttle back to 460 and there was not another plane that could catch them..... unless something went south. That's all I was eluding to with my post.
So, I am sorry if I offended anyone. That certainly was NOT my intent.

[N22252]

Re: Idea For New Warbird Classes

Instead of new classes, how about just having every participating aircraft (other then racers) do a timed lap after their performance or display flight. Would have been fun to see that CAF Spitfire turn a lap, or the Hellcat. Even the aerobatic guys get a lap. Times can be posted on a perpetual board (aka Top Gear). I think it would be a great to see aircraft that normally don't turn the course. The pilot can push as hard as he wants or just cruise. Even the military guys can get a turn. ( remember seeing the F-14 and F-16 turn timed laps.) This kind of thing can fuel discussions as to how fast would the Spit turn the course, or compare stock aircraft times. Rare aircraft can turn a lap without fear of burning up equipment. Who would not like to see an actual Me 109, FW-190 or a Zero run a lap. Any aircraft that shows up can turn a lap. This might bring back some stock aircraft or aircraft that would not normally turn a lap.

This ...would have been cool to see those F-4's drop onto the course Friday afternoon

[Sky Critter]

Re: Idea For New Warbird Classes

Instead of new classes, how about just having every participating aircraft (other then racers) do a timed lap after their performance or display flight. Would have been fun to see that CAF Spitfire turn a lap, or the Hellcat. Even the aerobatic guys get a lap. Times can be posted on a perpetual board (aka Top Gear). I think it would be a great to see aircraft that normally don't turn the course. The pilot can push as hard as he wants or just cruise. Even the military guys can get a turn. ( remember seeing the F-14 and F-16 turn timed laps.) This kind of thing can fuel discussions as to how fast would the Spit turn the course, or compare stock aircraft times. Rare aircraft can turn a lap without fear of burning up equipment. Who would not like to see an actual Me 109, FW-190 or a Zero run a lap. Any aircraft that shows up can turn a lap. This might bring back some stock aircraft or aircraft that would not normally turn a lap.

Yep, that would be cool to see. Perhaps the aerobatic guys should be required to do a snap roll at each pylon and maybe have Kent Pietsch just do the IF1 course...

[wingman]

Re: Idea For New Warbird Classes

Hey Warpt -- to some degree you were right, and I feel better saying that after your explanation post. I actually thought the original was funny, with the caveat that flying warbirds 150 feet off the ground is never casual. Mustangs don't have to be seriously racing to be a pleasure, and every body was pulling more power and making better noise than they would at an airshow. I've always loved Bronze racing anyhow.

And Dusty Dowd was definitely racing!

Neal

[WARPT]

Re: Idea For New Warbird Classes

Hey Warpt -- to some degree you were right, and I feel better saying that after your explanation post. I actually thought the original was funny, with the caveat that flying warbirds 150 feet off the ground is never casual. Mustangs don't have to be seriously racing to be a pleasure, and every body was pulling more power and making better noise than they would at an airshow. I've always loved Bronze racing anyhow.

And Dusty Dowd was definitely racing!

Neal

Thank you Neal. Not everyone cared for my original post.
AGREED! "Dusty" Dowd was definitely racing!
He had that little Yak just a SINGING!

[Skyracer]

Re: Idea For New Warbird Classes

Instead of new classes, how about just having every participating aircraft (other then racers) do a timed lap after their performance or display flight. Would have been fun to see that CAF Spitfire turn a lap, or the Hellcat. Even the aerobatic guys get a lap. Times can be posted on a perpetual board (aka Top Gear). I think it would be a great to see aircraft that normally don't turn the course. The pilot can push as hard as he wants or just cruise. Even the military guys can get a turn. ( remember seeing the F-14 and F-16 turn timed laps.) This kind of thing can fuel discussions as to how fast would the Spit turn the course, or compare stock aircraft times. Rare aircraft can turn a lap without fear of burning up equipment. Who would not like to see an actual Me 109, FW-190 or a Zero run a lap. Any aircraft that shows up can turn a lap. This might bring back some stock aircraft or aircraft that would not normally turn a lap.

I like it!

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Idea For New Warbird Classes

I like it!

I love it, a lot! But I can see the FAA regs putting on the brakes. Likely, an aerobatic waivered pilot.. aren't they down to zero altitude? would be able to do it legally, this is the basis of how Red Bull Air Racing works.

I wonder if there would have to be course time in the logbook, via PRS to actually get down on the course for the non acro waivered folks?

How bout a qualified pilot in the right, or back seat?

Again, I love this idea!

[Skyracer]

Re: Idea For New Warbird Classes

Looks very cool! I appreciate what Skyracer said though, a lot of money out for not a lot in.

Looking forward, I think what we're looking at here is a need to produce MORE racers that are BIG, LOUD, FAST and CLOSE!

This would be pretty darn cool.

I get the money thing, but if the interest and airplanes can be secured, it is beginning to look as though there is a LOT of international interest in the sport of Air Racing.

No question guys and gals, it's time to think out of the box if we're going to survive. I think the IF1 guys have NAILED it!

How bout IF6?

Skyracer, if there was BIG outside funding coming in, crap, there's so much T-6 new old stock inventory around, including complete airframes, canopy frames.. I've personally seen one huge stash years ago.

I get where you're coming from Jim but if something like this could succeed, guys like you would need to be on board.

"BIG, LOUD, FAST, and CLOSE!" is GOOD!!! and I'm on board. But, SUPER 6 would not be a cheap nor easy way to get there. And what is the goal, 300, 400, 500 MPH? I know from experience how hard 220 is on the airframe, and how much harder 230 is. So how fast do you want to go, at some point the aiframe is going to say no more.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Idea For New Warbird Classes

"BIG, LOUD, FAST, and CLOSE!" is GOOD!!! and I'm on board. But, SUPER 6 would not be a cheap nor easy way to get there. And what is the goal, 300, 400, 500 MPH? I know from experience how hard 220 is on the airframe, and how much harder 230 is. So how fast do you want to go, at some point the aiframe is going to say no more.

Oh Jim, I'm gonna don my flame retardant suit here for not what will come from you but others. Speed is relative!

I put forth the suggestion of some sort of restriction on HP... I dubbed it "restrictor plate" but only meant it to emphasize that you don't need to go faster to provide really entertaining racing, the thing that really grabs MOST people is the competition. Faster doesn't always mean more competition.

Jim, you know I treasure and value your opinions and I think we're actually on the same track.. I'm only "on" the super t6 thing as an idea tossed out how to get fan interest. The T6's are probably quite boring to the younger crowd... what if they were "Hollywooded" up a bit? Better prop, slicker bolt on canopy, different wingtips... now that is relatively cheap, you gotta admit... so if cost were the main hurdle to this discussion, limits to reason could still win????

Maybe?????

Where's Victor Archer, we need a graphic example of what could be done for.... "cheap" to make the T6 airplane attractive to the young folks who only like jets.. ?

[Sky Critter]

Re: Idea For New Warbird Classes

Oh Jim, I'm gonna don my flame retardant suit here for not what will come from you but others. Speed is relative!

I put forth the suggestion of some sort of restriction on HP... I dubbed it "restrictor plate" but only meant it to emphasize that you don't need to go faster to provide really entertaining racing, the thing that really grabs MOST people is the competition. Faster doesn't always mean more competition.

Jim, you know I treasure and value your opinions and I think we're actually on the same track.. I'm only "on" the super t6 thing as an idea tossed out how to get fan interest. The T6's are probably quite boring to the younger crowd... what if they were "Hollywooded" up a bit? Better prop, slicker bolt on canopy, different wingtips... now that is relatively cheap, you gotta admit... so if cost were the main hurdle to this discussion, limits to reason could still win????

Maybe?????

Where's Victor Archer, we need a graphic example of what could be done for.... "cheap" to make the T6 airplane attractive to the young folks who only like jets.. ?

Wayne, did you see the modified T6 I linked to on page two of this thread? Here's a real T6 with a 51 style canopy, clipped winges and a 3-blade prop. And, it's for sale for $235k. Not much more than a nice stock T6 and on par with fairly nice Lancair.

[Race 29]

Re: Idea For New Warbird Classes

I love the T6 idea! There's plenty of T6's flying around with three blade props already! If there's people out there willing to pony up the dough to race their P-51, Bearcat, Seafury, etc. then there's people out there who would modify a T6 for this class. Most of the field is modified already. More mods won't be that big of a deal to them.

Race 29