A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

[toldjaso]

Re: A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

Perhaps you would do well to conduct a little due diligence in what a "snuff film" is before you opine. Your comment does a disservices and is insulting to those lost, injured, and the family and friends of all involved. Strange that you hold yourself up in support of those still dealing with the tragedy but choose to use terminology that is actually harmful.

Moreover, this project is not about reliving the accident. It's about dealing with the aftermath and perseverance of the human spirit. Perhaps we should all withhold judgment until the project is completed.

Not here carrying water for the producer. All I asked was if anyone could provide some contact information. In classic style, people get their panties in a bunch and blast out uninformed, knee-jerk comments that serve no purpose other than to make themselves seem holier-than-thou...

Please tell me...how does this differ from any other MCE that this country has endured over time. You know...the ones that were actually the murder of innocents. I suppose you and others have never watched a single minute of any 9/11 footage, correct? Spare me your pontification....

Let's not judge, Air Judge!
Let's respect all opinions, remember?
After all, remind me, who opened this can of worms in the first place?

[Guest]

Re: A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

Let's not judge, Air Judge!
Let's respect all opinions, remember?
After all, remind me, who opened this can of worms in the first place?

I did...and I expected this group to respect all opinions. That said, to consider this as a "snuff" is ridiculous. Struck me hard and disrespectful on many levels. I'm happy to take the heat...no problem. But let's keep it real. That comment was way over the line...

[Guest]

Re: A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

And it was never intended to be a can of worms. Just a request to see if anyone had information. Unfortunately, this group took this someplace it was never intended to go. Yet another example of the cesspool that is social media.

[toldjaso]

Re: A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

I did...and I expected this group to respect all opinions. That said, to consider this as a "snuff" is ridiculous. Struck me hard and disrespectful on many levels. I'm happy to take the heat...no problem. But let's keep it real. That comment was way over the line...

Fair enough.

I'm just afraid this subject will open a lot of wounds.
I was very fortunate that the event only ended my very promising career in air racing. Only 30+ years in the making.
It affected a lot of other people in a much worse way.
Can't put it behind you, ever. Just not to sure it will help to bring it all back up. RARA has done better than I ever thought they would at keeping this show together.
We all want to see the NCAR continue.
I'm done.

[Guest]

Re: A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

Fair enough.

I'm just afraid this subject will open a lot of wounds.
I was very fortunate that the event only ended my very promising career in air racing. Only 30+ years in the making.
It affected a lot of other people in a much worse way.
Can't put it behind you, ever. Just not to sure it will help to bring it all back up. RARA has done better than I ever thought they would at keeping this show together.
We all want to see the NCAR continue.
I'm done.

I'm out, too. God forbid you bring something up on this blog that may even slightly offend or otherwise ruffle the feathers of the hierarchy of air racing on AAFO. Go ahead...do your best imitation of the ostrich. Stick your collective heads in the sand and pretend it never happened. See where that get's you...

And those who love this sport wonder why it consistently is on the edge of extermination. Have a mirror...?

[Lockheed Bob]

Re: A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

Well said Air Judge. I'm finding out in my old age that people don't want to live in the real world. That's why most of todays movies are animated (all make believe). Oh well I wonder when we go to the drone races & one crashes will we have a memorial for it? Progress?????

[kenf]

Re: A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

Speaking of getting flamed, here goes.. This is not really connected to what Christine Lazzarini is trying to put together (in fact probably exactly opposite to it), I just need to express something that has eaten at me for too long.

We are all devotees, to one degree or another, of a sport that gets very poor, if any, media coverage (NBC’s current work excluded) that is not focused on the private aspects of a tragedy. In those tragic times the emphasis is on the human loss of the situation for which I feel great empathy. But beyond empathy, it is really none of anyone’s business who is not personally involved. It is not anything a “fan”, no matter how deeply dedicated to the sport, has any right to intrude upon. But often lost in this appropriate privacy are the purely factual aspects of the event about which fans do have a right to be curious. This event, these planes, are an important part of our lives. The sport, like any professional one, has an “inside” and an “outside” constituency. The result of this has, with very few exceptions, resulted in the “inside” group deciding what the “outside” group “needs to know”. Again, as the flames are growing, let me repeat, I am not talking about personal or in any way morbid information.

I am talking about things like, was it really a trim tab failure for the Ghost, what caused Miss Ashley to disintegrate, was the Pond Racer design as inadequate as it would appear? These kinds of issues have nothing to do with Jimmy Leeward, Gary Levitz, or Rick Brickert except that their deaths (and others) were a result of the issues. One of the things that I dearly loved about Karen Sandberg’s handling of the Tsunami tragedy which resulted in the death of her father, was that she could distance herself from her personal grief enough to use her Speed, Props, and Pylons newsletter to inform those who wished to know about the cause of the crash, so that these questions did not have to remain unanswered. Too frequently, we are left with the feeling that much of this non-personal information is known but it is decided to just not divulge it.

Flame away…

[flyingjibus]

Re: A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

Perhaps you would do well to conduct a little due diligence in what a "snuff film" is before you opine. Your comment does a disservices and is insulting to those lost, injured, and the family and friends of all involved. Strange that you hold yourself up in support of those still dealing with the tragedy but choose to use terminology that is actually harmful.

Moreover, this project is not about reliving the accident. It's about dealing with the aftermath and perseverance of the human spirit. Perhaps we should all withhold judgment until the project is completed.

Not here carrying water for the producer. All I asked was if anyone could provide some contact information. In classic style, people get their panties in a bunch and blast out uninformed, knee-jerk comments that serve no purpose other than to make themselves seem holier-than-thou...

Please tell me...how does this differ from any other MCE that this country has endured over time. You know...the ones that were actually the murder of innocents. I suppose you and others have never watched a single minute of any 9/11 footage, correct? Spare me your pontification....

Wow. You asked for opinions. I gave you mine. Holier than thou?

Please explain to the class how using footage that shows Jimmy Leewards body bouncing across the ramp among severed limbs will BETTER show how we dealt with this tragedy?

Do I need to watch people jumping out of windows of the WTC to remember what happened there?

I had someone threaten my life because I expressed grief about the races ending in the post 2011 discussion, and now I am being told I am holier than though for having an opinion about what footage to use.

I have watched almost 25 people die right in front of me at Reno, I am sure you have seen quite a few as well
.

Why are we even having this discussion?....

[flyingjibus]

Re: A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

I agree with Air Judge. They still show & talk about the Space Shuttle disasters, the sinking of the Titanic, the Hindenburg going down, 911 photos, etc. All of these really happened & it is all how the Galloping Ghost incident is presented. Maybe we will all learn something about human nature. " Remember Pearl Harbor".

The cockpit of the space shuttle is very well protected. So protected that all the astronauts on board the challenger survived the explosion, and sat there strapped in, screaming as they fell to the ocean. There was an open com line with them the whole time. Meaning, we have a recording of them screaming as they fell.

Does that get a lot of airtime? Do they play that in schools? Do you need to hear that to understand an appreciate the tragedy?

[flyboycpa]

Re: A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

She might try contacting Formula I racer, Jason Barksdale. He has a great story as he was a spectator injured (with shrapnel) and is now a racer among us.

Sam Swift
Biplane #3

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

Initially, I thought this thread headed in a fairly civil direction, a discussion of a touchy subject among those passionate about this sport. Without reviewing the entire thread, it appears that things got personal at the point where the reference to the footage of our most tragic event was compared to a "snuff film".

I do understand the mixed feelings about this! I'm totally torn... I was deeply affected by the tragedy, lost a very dear friend and others lost even more, much much more. It has, for the most part, soured my deep love for the event. That is probably evident to anyone who followed this site up to and beyond 2011.

Please, everyone, when we discuss matters like this, try to keep the emotions in check. Air Judge is a great guy and a huge asset to the sport, other folks feelings are important as well, but give the guy a break on this! The man was just as deeply scarred by the event as anyone of us who witnessed it. There's no "right or wrong" here.. it just is, it's just someone trying to make a creation and cover an event, hopefully, the documentary is one that will ultimately show our sport as nothing more or less than what it is. It is a human undertaking, an extremely exciting and at times, equally as dangerous undertaking no worse or more dangerous than that of many other things we humans do. Like drive on the freeway, walk across the street.

Anyway, just keep it civil, I DO NOT want this place to be one where anyone gets flamed for things like this... or any thing for that matter.. flaming is just not a good thing to do anywhere!

By the way...

this is totally off topic, but since the reputation of this site seems to have taken quite a hit with this thread, I'll use this as a time to say that things have to change here!

I'm personally $207. out of pocket per month keeping the lights on with a dedicated server that's extremely secure and... well... one more reason to not be able to justify pulling that much out of my social security and retirement benefits! About every other month, we make the $100. buck minimum to get a payment from google. Don't cut it, unfortunately.

I don't want to go with joint hosting, where we live on a server with a s h i t load of other sites, too easy to be breached.

Anyway, more has to come on this, I really don't want to, or foresee shutting down the place... unless you guys decide to **** it up and make it a noplace instead of, like it used to be THE place!

[GRNDP51]

Re: A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

Initially, I thought this thread headed in a fairly civil direction, a discussion of a touchy subject among those passionate about this sport. Without reviewing the entire thread, it appears that things got personal at the point where the reference to the footage of our most tragic event was compared to a "snuff film".

I do understand the mixed feelings about this! I'm totally torn... I was deeply affected by the tragedy, lost a very dear friend and others lost even more, much much more. It has, for the most part, soured my deep love for the event. That is probably evident to anyone who followed this site up to and beyond 2011.

Please, everyone, when we discuss matters like this, try to keep the emotions in check. Air Judge is a great guy and a huge asset to the sport, other folks feelings are important as well, but give the guy a break on this! The man was just as deeply scarred by the event as anyone of us who witnessed it. There's no "right or wrong" here.. it just is, it's just someone trying to make a creation and cover an event, hopefully, the documentary is one that will ultimately show our sport as nothing more or less than what it is. It is a human undertaking, an extremely exciting and at times, equally as dangerous undertaking no worse or more dangerous than that of many other things we humans do. Like drive on the freeway, walk across the street.

Anyway, just keep it civil, I DO NOT want this place to be one where anyone gets flamed for things like this... or any thing for that matter.. flaming is just not a good thing to do anywhere!

By the way...

this is totally off topic, but since the reputation of this site seems to have taken quite a hit with this thread, I'll use this as a time to say that things have to change here!

I'm personally $207. out of pocket per month keeping the lights on with a dedicated server that's extremely secure and... well... one more reason to not be able to justify pulling that much out of my social security and retirement benefits! About every other month, we make the $100. buck minimum to get a payment from google. Don't cut it, unfortunately.

I don't want to go with joint hosting, where we live on a server with a s h i t load of other sites, too easy to be breached.

Anyway, more has to come on this, I really don't want to, or foresee shutting down the place... unless you guys decide to **** it up and make it a noplace instead of, like it used to be THE place!

I feel like the problem here is nobody gives a sh*t anymore. Every single time I post something about potential rumors or whatever it doesn't make it to a second page. I remember when silly season forums were 20+ pages long. THIS is the only reason Facebook has an appeal to me, plenty of people "in the know" are able to comment on things, and 50% of the time the things I post on here are from various people stating facts/rumors on Facebook... My rant for the day...

[Guest]

Re: A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

She might try contacting Formula I racer, Jason Barksdale. He has a great story as he was a spectator injured (with shrapnel) and is now a racer among us.

Sam Swift
Biplane #3

Thanks Sam. I'll let the producer know. This is what I was looking for...not the irrational tennis match. Much appreciated.

[Guest]

Re: A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

The cockpit of the space shuttle is very well protected. So protected that all the astronauts on board the challenger survived the explosion, and sat there strapped in, screaming as they fell to the ocean. There was an open com line with them the whole time. Meaning, we have a recording of them screaming as they fell.

Does that get a lot of airtime? Do they play that in schools? Do you need to hear that to understand an appreciate the tragedy?

You're entitled to your own reality, Flying. Enjoy it...

[John H]

Re: A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

The cockpit of the space shuttle is very well protected. So protected that all the astronauts on board the challenger survived the explosion, and sat there strapped in, screaming as they fell to the ocean. There was an open com line with them the whole time. Meaning, we have a recording of them screaming as they fell.

Does that get a lot of airtime? Do they play that in schools? Do you need to hear that to understand an appreciate the tragedy?

WHat The?!!! Totally false. Nice try.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/false-tape-proves-doomed-challenger-crew-screamed-cursed-and-prayed/

Do you have pics of The B-32 on the moon too?