A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

[GRNDP51]

Re: A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

I wanted to offer up my opinion on where the thread has gone as I agree with most of what all has been said. I know jibus has taken the flak but I feel where he is coming from. The only time I have watched the accident footage again was in the months after it happened just to understand the gravity of it. I also have watched 9/11 footage for the intent of learning more about a historic event, not being there it fills in any gaps and questions. In very recent news, I imagine most if not all of you are aware of the Yak incident at Wanaka. Of course the situation is A LOT less severe, but we still want to see video of it to know exactly what occurred since we didn't witness it first hand. If ANYONE watches the footage from these events just to see the morbid aspects of death involved then they are a disgrace to all involved with those in 9/11 or our air race family... plain and simple.

AirJudge I read over her website and I understand what she is trying to do. I think the issue I had as well as some of the others is the first post was a plea for photos. Not a plea for stories of recovery, or efforts of the Huey crew, etc... You asked for images of the worst day in Reno history, for a few of us including myself probably the worst day of our lives.

My hope is that this document doesn't turn into a "compilation of accident footage and pictures" for those sick minded to absorb and enjoy. That is disgusting. The only way this document should be handled is interviews and stories NOT PICTURES of what happened and how the individuals involved coped with it. I don't mean to sound rude in saying this, but I see where she is coming from... who wants a document that doesn't include the horrific photos of the crash, besides those who were there or a part of it in any way. The broader audience wants to see photos of videos of the crash and visualize where the person being interviewed was when the plane hit the tarmac. As much as I don't need to see that, how else would it attract an audience... That's why I think it's a bad cause...

I would like to see the document be about those involved and why they continue to support Reno and its mission, just like all of us on here do. Nothing along the lines of "why didn't you sue RARA?", more along the lines of I already have my hotel booked at the Peppermill for my 36th year at Reno...

That's all I got

P.S. Without a doubt the best tribute video is Jason's Final Flight of the Ghost. I think you know why.

[flyingjibus]

Re: A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

I think the issue I had as well as some of the others is the first post was a plea for photos. Not a plea for stories of recovery, or efforts of the Huey crew, etc... You asked for images of the worst day in Reno history, for a few of us including myself probably the worst day of our lives. "

DING DING DING.


My bad on the shuttle account. you hear something enough times it becomes true. Doesn't change my point at all, and I am sure you can see that if you look hard enough.


This was poorly asked, poorly responded to, and poorly handled by all involved. My feelings have not changed at all though.

There is no reason to use accident footage.

[Sky Critter]

Re: A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

IMO This couldn't have been asked any better than it was. As with anything in life, you can choose to look away, change the channel or not participate. I'm sure there is plenty of footage and photos of the efforts by all involved from that day that don't show the actual crash. Air judge didn't ask for opinions as to whether or not the documentary should be made or not and also offered to keep this "offline" via PM. It's amazing to me to see grown adults devolve this into a pissing match or claim their pain is greater than anyone else. Yes, I was there, along with my wife and several friends.

I've been on AAFO for 15 years and have enjoyed the discussions and information a great deal but, this has about put the final nail in the coffin for me.

I wish everyone the best and hope to see you on the ramp this September...

Sky Critter
Mike

[John H]

Re: A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

DING DING DING.


My bad on the shuttle account. you hear something enough times it becomes true. Doesn't change my point at all, and I am sure you can see that if you look hard enough.


This was poorly asked, poorly responded to, and poorly handled by all involved. My feelings have not changed at all though.

There is no reason to use accident footage.

Thanks . It’s true - like the one about the kid taking out immigrant robbers 11-12 Years Ago in Butte Mt- Urban myth.

[RarebearFan77]

Re: A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

John H... are you saying the astronauts didn't survive the vehicle break up, or that the com recordings are fake?

[John H]

Re: A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

The Recordings are fake as seen here:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/false-tape-proves-doomed-challenger-crew-screamed-cursed-and-prayed/

[Guest]

Re: A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

DING DING DING.


My bad on the shuttle account. you hear something enough times it becomes true. Doesn't change my point at all, and I am sure you can see that if you look hard enough.


This was poorly asked, poorly responded to, and poorly handled by all involved. My feelings have not changed at all though.

There is no reason to use accident footage.

Go back and read my initial post. I didn't ask anyone on here for images or footage. I asked if anyone on here could advise the producer with contact information of others who had such images or footage. A simple request from folks who might be in the know more than I am re: such matters.

If you (collectively) feel it's inappropriate to use such footage, fine. You're certainly entitled. Frankly, time will tell whether or not the project is well-intended and well produced. And I'm willing to let the production speak for itself and make up my own mind after I've seen it. You know...reserve judgment until I have all the facts. Seems others on here are not so willing...

If you want to start another thread about how appropriate this production may or may not be, crank it up. Folks on here seem to be able to operated a keyboard without much difficulty. Unfortunately, as is often the case, the thread was hijacked in a different direction.

[Lockheed Bob]

Re: A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

Air Judge is right. Some of the replies had nothing to do for what he originally asked about. Wait till it comes out & then make your comments to her directly & quit attacking one of our highly qualified members who has dedicated a large part of his life to the Reno Air Races & Air Shows.

[RarebearFan77]

Re: A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

The Recordings are fake as seen here:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fa...ed-and-prayed/

Agreed... but they did survive till impact...

[Leo]

Re: A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

I was there. I have a shirt stained with fluids an a couple of pieces of metal and asphalt that landed in my chair (not discovered until the opening of it there the next year), so I remember it. We all deal with this stuff in our lives very differently. I have been blessed with a very high tolerance for the tragedies in my life. None of my "race mates" have been back since and some won't even go to the airport again.
That said, I prefer to look at the positives in the accident, such as they are. I saw it later as a chance for people to shine in the face of horror.
The announcers call for able bodied help just seconds after the crash that happened right on top of them, asking everyone else to please leave.
The fact that the crowd for the large part followed those directions.
The instant response of everyone on the field that COULD be of assistance.
The Huey crew firing up for evacuation of wounded. One of the most stirring sights I saw for days after was that Huey landing in a park next to the hospital over and over.
The fans that were injured or had relatives killed that showed up the next year.

If we could focus on more of this about this incident, and the other tragedies that happen on a day-to-day basis, our faith in humankind would be much stronger.
Forget it? Sweep it under the rug as a bad memory? Go ahead if you must for your own needs. But, what would we learn from that?

[Lockheed Bob]

Re: A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

Well said. Life goes on. I go out to Stead at least 2 or 3 times a month to see what's going on & sometimes I just sit & reflect what I have seen over the 30+ years I have been there. The good & the bad. The racers have learned how to win & how to cope with the bad. There were others besides the "Ghost" that are gone. Only once did we lose spectators & that is a pretty good record. I don't recall anyone in the stands ever losing their lives. Did RARA really need to put people almost out to the taxiway? Just my own opinion.

[Guest]

Re: A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

I was there. I have a shirt stained with fluids an a couple of pieces of metal and asphalt that landed in my chair (not discovered until the opening of it there the next year), so I remember it. We all deal with this stuff in our lives very differently. I have been blessed with a very high tolerance for the tragedies in my life. None of my "race mates" have been back since and some won't even go to the airport again.
That said, I prefer to look at the positives in the accident, such as they are. I saw it later as a chance for people to shine in the face of horror.
The announcers call for able bodied help just seconds after the crash that happened right on top of them, asking everyone else to please leave.
The fact that the crowd for the large part followed those directions.
The instant response of everyone on the field that COULD be of assistance.
The Huey crew firing up for evacuation of wounded. One of the most stirring sights I saw for days after was that Huey landing in a park next to the hospital over and over.
The fans that were injured or had relatives killed that showed up the next year.

If we could focus on more of this about this incident, and the other tragedies that happen on a day-to-day basis, our faith in humankind would be much stronger.
Forget it? Sweep it under the rug as a bad memory? Go ahead if you must for your own needs. But, what would we learn from that?

Well said, Leo...well said indeed. It's one of those few things in life that can simultaneously seem to have been so long ago and yet...one closes their eyes and it's like yesterday. I certainly wasn't as close to the incident as you and others (working at Home Pylon) but it was nonetheless gut-wrenching. Several of my judges were responsible for transporting several genset/light-stands from the race course to the scene to support the recovery effort. To this day, every one of them feels the same...they stepped up and answered the call to help in any way they could...but the aftermath will forever be engrained in their minds. Some things you just can't unsee...no matter how hard you try.

I trust the documentary will be well produced, respectful, and focus in very large measure on the strength and resilience of the human spirit in the face of human tragedy. Bottom line: I'm proud to be associated with RARA and believe with all I have that they set the bar very high in how an organization should respond to such a horrific event. And proud of the fans of the sport...those who were affected by the accident and those who, while not suffering a loss or injury, showed up year after year. That spirit will serve this event well into the future and keep the memory of those lost alive. To paraphrase the old adage, so long as we keep speaking their names...they live on.

[Fence Sence]

Re: A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

There’s two knobs on the TV.

The only way I ever got over any of it was by talking about it. I wasn’t in the chit but I know people who were. They desperately needed to talk about it in order to deal with it. I, for one, will not forget that day. Ever. I’m also not going to pretend it didn’t happen. That’s just where I fall in the “how I deal with it” debate. I understand the trepidation of the other side but, that can’t determine my or anyone else’s need to deal with it in their own way.

One knob turns the volume up, the other changes the channel.

[Jukka]

Re: A Delicate Matter - Can You Assist

I know this hurts as we used to have an annual air show in Finland where in the fifties a paratoopers chute didn't open..it was mentioned every year for about 50 years.

A broken propeller can be seen here; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azhboOSkono

Yet I ask since I know person who knew the Leewards. Was Galloping Ghost actually the fastest Mustang ever produced ?

The pitch up is tendency for Mustang...like pitch down is in Messerschmitt 109.

It was an unfortunate accident. Peace to all involved..and strenght to carry on !