Voodoo Speed Record

[BellCobraIV]

Re: Voodoo Speed Record

Yes, but rules are rules. If you are not breaking the rules, then no one can get too upset. However, it is a little unfair when rules change. The current 3 km rules are that the aircraft needs to enter a 1,000 m approach before the 3 km course. Once on the course, the aircraft cannot drop more than 100 m. Also, at no time after entering the approach for the first run can the aircraft exceed 500 m AGL above the averaged height of the start and finish points, until the last run is made. There is no mention of not being able to dive from 5,800 ft AGL to the approach for the first run. A little cheeky, but any current record setter can do it I suppose.



Let’s ignore that the course changed between the 499 mph run and the 507 mph run. The issue here is that you had a course that measured Y (pylon-to-pylon measurement). Then, someone decided that the course should be measured as Y + 2% (not the exact amount, but basically pylon-to-pylon plus an extra amount to compensate for the aircraft not actually traveling a straight line from one pylon to the next). The course itself did not really change. If you ran 60 seconds over the Y distance, and 60 seconds over the Y + 2% distance, your calculated speed went up by 2% even though the time did not change.

499 + 2% = 509
507 – 2% = 497

Now, admitting that the course did actually change between when those speeds were recorded, you can see that there could be contention over exactly which was truly the fastest lap. If the way the course was measurement was kept constant (even if it does not truly represent the path the aircraft takes), you have a more fair comparison.



Back in the day, you had just a speed record. Then, jets ruined everything (just kidding). Different classes were created for different types of aircraft and subclasses for weight brackets. This format enables a guy in an F1 to set a speed record in his weight class even though he is much slower than the SR-71. The fastest records were an “absolute” record, but that was a little redundant. If the F1 can top 3,000 mph, who really cares that it was in a different weight class (and power class) than the SR-71.

Rare Bear holds the 3 km absolute (any weight class) speed record for a piston-powered aircraft. The record was retired, and new records focusing on weight subclasses were established. Voodoo holds the 3 km speed record for class C-1e (C = aircraft, 1 = piston-powered, e = 3,000–5,999 kg). Rare Bear would be in the same class if it were to attempt a new record. Although Rare Bear’s record is retired, we all know what it is and use it (rightly so) as the benchmark for the fastest piston-powered aircraft.

Bill,
That was one of the best constructed answers to several questions I've ever read. Great job.
John

[marke]

Re: Voodoo Speed Record

Here are a few drawings I did of Voodoo during the Speed Record attempt.

[marke]

Re: Voodoo Speed Record

Kit planes just came out with a good article on Voodoo's Class
C-1e record.

[BellCobraIV]

Re: Voodoo Speed Record

To explain what I was getting at, Grampi, the new GPS timing equipment (some of which is carried on-board, I believe) seems to be much easier than when Lyle Shelton had to fly through camera traps that were on the ground (a tighter space to fly in), and I could be wrong, but I think the course was specifically about 1/3 as wide as now.

As far as diving down on the first pass, I don't know if Lyle had that option or not, John Slack indicated he didn't do it because it would be harder to hit the entry to the course. He did not do it, for whatever reason. Not saying it is cheating or anything like that, if you can do it, do it!

Voodoo's pass averages slow considerably after the first one, so one would think that dive had a lot to do with the first passes speed.

Matt Jackson found out what might happen doing that when Strega became the fastest open-cockpit Reno Racer!

Also, have to be very careful not to get into a PIO diving in, I hear Lyle almost got bit by that at least once.

What Stevo and crew did was amazing, especially watching the video of them changing out that cylinder bank is cool.

He milked that last pass out of a sick engine. His Dad tried that once in another P-51, didn't end up quite as well.

I don't see anyone capable of challenging the current record. Not for now, anyhow.

In reply to your post, it was so darn hard for Lyle to reference the entry point of the course that he most likely would have never been in the fixed point reference frame on the starting end of the first pass IF he had slingshotted down from the statosphere. Do I think that is cheating? Heck no, ask Smokey Yunick about rule books, it's not what the rule book says necessarily.... it's what it doesn't say. If Lyle had a wider course and modern timing equipment then he might have been able to get a better diving start. The PIO (Pilot Induced Oscillation) almost ate the Bearcat and Lyle for lunch at the Bakersfield air race in 1985 it was a brutal thing that caused us to study what was going on for a good bit of time.... however the PIO during a stratospheric dive would have had an effect on the planning of that maximum dive speed. I applaud Stevo for the amount of time he personally put into the research and modification of Voodoo. But it didn't stop there, when he came up and we went over the wing attachment modification for the incidence angle change he was up here for a couple of days. I guess I am most proud of Stevo because he reminds me of my Dad.....very determined to win, and just like rust he never sleeps.

I've said this before my Dad started thinking about Reno "next year" during the approach to landing of the current years Gold final whether it was a win and he still had power or whether it was not a win and it was dead stick. 365 1/4 days a year, 24 hours a day. No matter what else he was doing he was thinking about racing. His 85th Birthday would have been tomorrow, and it's Father's day weekend.....Yeah that's a big hole to fill.
John

[W J Pearce]

Re: Voodoo Speed Record

Bill,
That was one of the best constructed answers to several questions I've ever read. Great job.
John

Thank you sir!

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Voodoo Speed Record

glad you made it to PRS Wayne, September look promising?

September is *always* promising! To be honest, I did not learn a lot about what will show up for the UL's, however, the Sport Class and IF1's look to be progressing very well and I expect a grand showing from them!

I'm loving the way Sport is evolving into a sort of "run what you brung"... I see guys putting a lot of effort into their "stock" airplanes, many, rough around the cosmetic edges but what's missing in looks is going into making the airplanes FAST


Working a story up on what I learned and can learn while writing, interview with Fred Telling has been agreed to and will take place via phone asap.

I think we're in for some very good years to come!!!!! Sorry about thread hijack! I read the messages via an email digest and sometimes I manage to post in the wrong thread!

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Voodoo Speed Record

Bill,
That was one of the best constructed answers to several questions I've ever read. Great job.
John

This young man is a very astute student of the sport! He grew up around it, proud and grateful to call him friend!

[W J Pearce]

Re: Voodoo Speed Record

This young man is a very astute student of the sport! He grew up around it, proud and grateful to call him friend!

I was young when we first met, twenty years ago, but not so young now. Well, much younger than you I suppose!

[Big_Jim]

Re: Voodoo Speed Record

Lets also remember that until Lyle broke the record in '89, the Guinness Book of World Records recognized Mike Carroll in the Signal Sea Fury as the fastest piston powered aircraft at something like 520 mph. How was that 'record' obtained? Air Traffic Control tracked him on radar during one of the trans-con races in the mid-60's. Estimated ground speed from ground based radar hundreds of miles away. Oh yeah, it was at altitude, too...not right on the deck.

I think we all know that there is no way that a Centaurus-powered Sea Fury was faster than Conquest I or the Red Baron in a straight line.

But would it have been right to recognize Race 87 as the world's fastest, based on THAT criteria?

[BellCobraIV]

Re: Voodoo Speed Record

Lets also remember that until Lyle broke the record in '89, the Guinness Book of World Records recognized Mike Carroll in the Signal Sea Fury as the fastest piston powered aircraft at something like 520 mph. How was that 'record' obtained? Air Traffic Control tracked him on radar during one of the trans-con races in the mid-60's. Estimated ground speed from ground based radar hundreds of miles away. Oh yeah, it was at altitude, too...not right on the deck.

I think we all know that there is no way that a Centaurus-powered Sea Fury was faster than Conquest I or the Red Baron in a straight line.

But would it have been right to recognize Race 87 as the world's fastest, based on THAT criteria?

Well I talked to Stevo a couple of days before he was attempting to set the record last year. As you know Brad my whole family are big Stevo fans, Lyle had even signed a "Racing for the Gold" book to Stevo as his final autograph congratulating him on his Reno win. Jokingly I told him he had chosen the wrong year to set the record as all the successful attempts had occurred during a year ending in "9"...1969, 1979, 1989. He kinda laughed and said he realized that but you go when you are ready. Sometimes I feel that if they had waited until 2019 fate would have shown a faster speed. It certainly should have gone faster.
John

[Big_Jim]

Re: Voodoo Speed Record

Well I talked to Stevo a couple of days before he was attempting to set the record last year. As you know Brad my whole family are big Stevo fans, Lyle had even signed a "Racing for the Gold" book to Stevo as his final autograph congratulating him on his Reno win. Jokingly I told him he had chosen the wrong year to set the record as all the successful attempts had occurred during a year ending in "9"...1969, 1979, 1989. He kinda laughed and said he realized that but you go when you are ready. Sometimes I feel that if they had waited until 2019 fate would have shown a faster speed. It certainly should have gone faster.
John

...or if he'd had ATC track his speed.

[marke]

Re: Voodoo Speed Record

I suspect during Stevos testing and practice for the Record, you would have seen some very high speeds. But he was not on the clock. I hope there is another attempt to get that record out of touch.But I guess as before, it's all about money to make that thing go.. Wishing them much success in whatever the future holds.