Unlimited fill in the blank

[TarDevil]

Quick intro...
Gray haired age but an old hippie at heart (shoulder length hair). 30+ years in the corporate world, not a thing to show for it (life is a curvy mountain road for some). Currently teaching middle school kids in our own private school.

Commercial pilot with some ratings, flown lots of junk and a few cool planes, last company plane a V35 I restored (on company funds). I've lurked for years, registered last year but took me another year to figure out how I could start posting. Probably a good thing, because I'm confident I'm last on the list of knowledgeable contributors in this forum. I'm here to learn from you guys, and I love the sound of 400 mph piston powered airplanes. Wouldn't get behind the stick for nuthin', though.

On to the subject at hand....
From my perspective and what I can find searching (finally) this forum, the unlimited field currently is a warbird parade led by Dreadnaught. Sunday's unlimited gold was - and will be for several years at least - pretty much "Introducing the Sanders fleet, with special appearances by ...!" Dreadnaught was introduced Sunday as the fastest airplane in the world, but that's not true. It's the fastest airplane to pay the entry fee, and Dennis apparently has the desire and dinero to do such with little return on investment. (Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this... I acknowledge my 'newbie' status).

I'm sure this has been discussed thoroughly but I don't have the savvy to find such conversations (I tried), but is the time ripe for an unlimited sport class? It's pretty common knowledge that we can get a couple grand hp from a blown V8 which should last a week or so, but such a plane wouldn't need 4500 lbs of airframe. AND...we might see races nudging 500 again.

It would be exciting to see someone produce a kit specific for this purpose, but if that was much of an idea the sport class would be ripe with Jon Sharp aircraft, and nary a one showed up this year. Are the Glasair's and Lancair's capable of those speeds? And are they better in some way than the NXT?

I'm a convert, I'll admit. I'm excited about next year's Sport class. I might watch the others, but only if there's no decent fishing that weekend.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Unlimited fill in the blank

Hummm… Had a few problems lately with threads not showing correctly, this was one of them. I finally was able to edit the title and remove opening and closing parentheses symbols.. looks like certain symbols may not fly in the database.. be careful how you title threads and don't use ( or ) if I discover how to alter this, I'll do so..

[CubersWrist]

Re: Unlimited fill in the blank

For all intents and purposes, sport class is unlimited, in that we can do pretty much whatever we want. Yeah we have the engine size limit, but we're using little more than half of that and speeds are at 400mph. And that rule is subject to change/adapting as the years go on, so I don't see that being a limitation down the road.

As for 500...I don't know if a Legacy or NXT can structurally do that. But when you think about it there are only "like" 5 unlimiteds that have ever broken 500 so it is extremely rare. I think the advertising of 500mph (plus the fudged course distances from several years ago) have jaded people (well, have jaded me) about how frequent that happens. So I don't know that sport class "needs" to break 500. If it's possible someone will eventually find a way, and that will take care of itself.

[wingman]

Re: Unlimited fill in the blank

Great reply Thomas -- I agree with all of it.

500 is just a number -- I well remember when it was a real feat to break 430 mph and no Unlimiteds were doing so regularly or reliably. Even 450 is really a pretty recent phenomenon.

Well, to me anyway! I'm old enough that 1987 feels recent, as do my days as Rare Bear crew during the glory years. My apologies to the non-geezers here...

Neal

[knot4u]

Re: Unlimited fill in the blank

For all intents and purposes, sport class is unlimited, in that we can do pretty much whatever we want. Yeah we have the engine size limit, but we're using little more than half of that and speeds are at 400mph. And that rule is subject to change/adapting as the years go on, so I don't see that being a limitation down the road.

As for 500...I don't know if a Legacy or NXT can structurally do that. But when you think about it there are only "like" 5 unlimiteds that have ever broken 500 so it is extremely rare. I think the advertising of 500mph (plus the fudged course distances from several years ago) have jaded people (well, have jaded me) about how frequent that happens. So I don't know that sport class "needs" to break 500. If it's possible someone will eventually find a way, and that will take care of itself.

500 is a tough nut. It took a long time for the racers at Reno to figure out how to get there with aircraft designed when almost the entire might of American Industry was focused on building aircraft. The time I spent working on the Bear was always working towards getting the first 500 mph lap. We got close, the fastest it went when I worked on it was 491, I honestly thought we had a chance at 500 that year. Congrats on the win, hope you get a chance to unwind a bit and enjoy it now that a few days have passed, it's a big deal, you did it.

[CubersWrist]

Re: Unlimited fill in the blank

Thank you. It’s been a surreal couple of days, but I’m starting to accept that we really did it. Andy, Jackie, and the whole team have been amazing to work with.
We have a list of things we didn’t like from this year and want to change, but I’m going to wait a couple weeks before touching any of those.

[Big_Jim]

Re: Unlimited fill in the blank

From my perspective and what I can find searching (finally) this forum, the unlimited field currently is a warbird parade led by Dreadnaught.

Hence the sarcasm of "1st Annual National Championship Warbird Fly-By and Pancake Breakfast" painted over the top of the RARA 55 logo.....

[TarDevil]

Re: Unlimited fill in the blank

Hence the sarcasm of "1st Annual National Championship Warbird Fly-By and Pancake Breakfast" painted over the top of the RARA 55 logo.....

Uh huh!

I agree that much of the attendance would drop without the Unlimited, regardless of competitiveness. Several friends at Oshkosh reported comments throughout the week... that's the only reason they make the trip. I mean, I can't imagine Reno without the sound of 4360's (Merlins, whatever) bending around those pylons. But I love a race and I worry that the class will never recover where we'll see what 2017 offered. Ever. Yeah, there was some close racing in the field, but racing in any form loves to see a battle for the flag. I just wonder if a new Unlimited class might replace that attraction.

Thomas's reply was exciting to think about (and congrats, Sir! Well done!). It's what makes me look forward to 2019... someone showing up to max out that class.

[Arctic Cat]

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"Dennis apparently has the desire and dinero to do such with little return on investment."

I don't know what the purse was this year, but Dreadnaught is the all time money winner at Reno and has rarely gone home on the trailer. This year with multiple planes flying circles at cruise power settings that the Sanders team did pretty well. They might not be making money but my guess is that they are covering their expenses pretty well.

[John]

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There was a time in the 1980's that the Dreadnaught was pretty much dominate. It took Tiger and crew some time to figure out how to get around the big Sea Fury(about 1987). Dred. won in '83, and '86, and would have won 1985 except for a pylon cut or something to that effect. Ironically, just as Tiger and his people figured out how to get around Dreadnaught they then had to deal with the Bear; and boy did the Rare Bear ever dominate from '88-'91. I was a Stiletto fan in those days, but the Radial vs. Inline engine competition really helped make Unlimited air racing extra exciting.
As a side note; we watched Brian Sanders win Tunica in Dreadnaught in the 90's, so I guess that gives 4 outright unlimited wins for historical purposes, unless I've missed any...

[georgiacub]

Re: Unlimited fill in the blank

[QUOTE=wingman;136245]Great reply Thomas -- I agree with all of it.

500 is just a number -- I well remember when it was a real feat to break 430 mph and no Unlimiteds were doing so regularly or reliably. Even 450 is really a pretty recent phenomenon.

For the Sport Class racers 500 MPH is more than just a number. The Legacy wing has another limitation besides airspeed. That limitation is Mach number. The designer of the wing has advised us that it is good to .60 Mach. That equates to about 456 MPH on a standard day. So, anything above that...…………….????????????????

[krts]

Re: Unlimited fill in the blank

Hummm… Had a few problems lately with threads not showing correctly, this was one of them. I finally was able to edit the title and remove opening and closing parentheses symbols.. looks like certain symbols may not fly in the database.. be careful how you title threads and don't use ( or ) if I discover how to alter this, I'll do so..

Wayne,please explain. ??????????

[TarDevil]

Re: Unlimited fill in the blank

Wayne,please explain. ??????????

When I originally posted, the title had parentheses. For some reason, that created a link back to the home page. Wayne remove the parentheses so the thread could be opened

[TarDevil]

Re: Unlimited fill in the blank

Recently heard from a semi- retired kit builder with auto conversion experience. I don't think he'd mind me repeating, since it was a public post. I've no doubt some of you are already aware:

All carbon airframe with retract gear, already in the works and good for 500+ mph Vne and 1000 HP.

Missing link: PSRU that will reliably handle the HP, at reasonable cost

This alludes to what Thomas said earlier. There's untapped potential. I'm confident he'll solve the PSRU issue.

[knot4u]

Re: Unlimited fill in the blank

If someone has an urge to go really fast maybe the Cornell/Jackson project could be purchased and completed. It would be awesome if some of the projects out there were finally finished, it would certainly breathe some fresh air back into what seems like an awfully stale Unlimited field.