Unlimited fill in the blank

[knot4u]

Re: Unlimited fill in the blank

If someone has an urge to go really fast maybe the Cornell/Jackson project could be purchased and completed. It would be awesome if some of the projects out there were finally finished, it would certainly breathe some fresh air back into what seems like an awfully stale Unlimited field.

[CubersWrist]

Re: Unlimited fill in the blank

For the Sport Class racers 500 MPH is more than just a number. The Legacy wing has another limitation besides airspeed. That limitation is Mach number. The designer of the wing has advised us that it is good to .60 Mach. That equates to about 456 MPH on a standard day. So, anything above that...…………….????????????????

So anything above that will have to be a new airframe and probably a new powerplant, which is very exciting to think about.

[wingman]

Re: Unlimited fill in the blank

" If someone has an urge to go really fast maybe the Cornell/Jackson project could be purchased and completed. It would be awesome if some of the projects out there were finally finished, it would certainly breathe some fresh air back into what seems like an awfully stale Unlimited field. "


True, but I think it would make a lot more financial sense to buy a seat in Strega and a big time Nixon motor -- a well proven combination. Another real possibility would be to pick up 232 and redevelop it. 232 has proven it can run 480 to 490 when the stars are aligned -- absolutely no reason it couldn't do it again with a Kerchenfaut clone running the program.

There are a lot of real question marks in my mind about the 2 unfinished new designs. Why take chances on a new unproven design -- especially an airplane as just plain big as these airplanes are, when Strega and 232 are out there just needing money to go fast again.

Neal

[Race5]

Re: Unlimited fill in the blank

If someone has an urge to go really fast maybe the Cornell/Jackson project could be purchased and completed. It would be awesome if some of the projects out there were finally finished, it would certainly breathe some fresh air back into what seems like an awfully stale Unlimited field.

There is a reason that project was never completed by Rod's crew. There were some engineering issues found that basically made it impossible to finish. Shockwave might still be doable.

[wingman]

Re: Unlimited fill in the blank

So anything above that will have to be a new airframe and probably a new powerplant, which is very exciting to think about.

For now at least, maybe think "NXT"? Or at least that wing design and profile I don't think Jon's design has by any means reached its potential. There was some very high powered thinking in that design. I've always wondered what the VNe of that wing might be.

Neal

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Unlimited fill in the blank

When I originally posted, the title had parentheses. For some reason, that created a link back to the home page. Wayne remove the parentheses so the thread could be opened

the characters ( and ) are also code symbols, I think somehow having them in the thread title knocked the software for a loop. Once I was able to change the title and remove the symbols/characters, it returned to normal.

I never wrote a line of software but have had to modify it many times, drives me nuts what a single little dot or slash or what have you can throw a script for a loop....

[krts]

Re: Unlimited fill in the blank

" If someone has an urge to go really fast maybe the Cornell/Jackson project could be purchased and completed. It would be awesome if some of the projects out there were finally finished, it would certainly breathe some fresh air back into what seems like an awfully stale Unlimited field. "


True, but I think it would make a lot more financial sense to buy a seat in Strega and a big time Nixon motor -- a well proven combination. Another real possibility would be to pick up 232 and redevelop it. 232 has proven it can run 480 to 490 when the stars are aligned -- absolutely no reason it couldn't do it again with a Kerchenfaut clone running the program.

There are a lot of real question marks in my mind about the 2 unfinished new designs. Why take chances on a new unproven design -- especially an airplane as just plain big as these airplanes are, when Strega and 232 are out there just needing money to go fast again.

Neal

ROI. That simple.No one wants to dump a ton of cash into something that they are not going to get a return on.Ask Rod,Dwelles,Eberhardts,Rhineschild,Dawson,Rabino,S anders and many more I can't think of right now.Let's not forget the liability factor.Just two reasons why there are unfinished projects out there.
Setting speed records now days is the way to go.Fairly inexpensive,do most of your testing from your home airport,and only have to put up a crew for maybe a week,a forklift rental and a tractor/trailer for gear.Much cheaper than air racing and safer with not having a bunch of other egotistic pilots flying around with you trying to kill you.There will be some exciting news about speed record setting soon.
The unlimited class is history.Like someone here said,it's a parade of warbirds playing follow the leader.
Just a few reasons why owners are going back to stock.

[CubersWrist]

Re: Unlimited fill in the blank

ROI. That simple.No one wants to dump a ton of cash into something that they are not going to get a return on.Ask Rod,Dwelles,Eberhardts,Rhineschild,Dawson,Rabino,S anders and many more I can't think of right now.Let's not forget the liability factor.Just two reasons why there are unfinished projects out there.
Setting speed records now days is the way to go.Fairly inexpensive,do most of your testing from your home airport,and only have to put up a crew for maybe a week,a forklift rental and a tractor/trailer for gear.Much cheaper than air racing and safer with not having a bunch of other egotistic pilots flying around with you trying to kill you.There will be some exciting news about speed record setting soon.
The unlimited class is history.Like someone here said,it's a parade of warbirds playing follow the leader.
Just a few reasons why owners are going back to stock.

ROI, liability, risk of losing an airplane, etc. All very true.
I think that's part of why the other classes have fared better. They don't have the value as a WWII plane. (well the Vampire jet could be an exception) But think about it, you have a racing machine that you need to thrash to its limit with a clear conscience. That doesn't fit well with a rare and historically valuable $1.5 million warbird. And that's okay, provided competitors are given the means and are encouraged to adapt and do something new. Would have been nice if the Pond Racer were still around. Would have made the gold easily this year.

Also as much as I advocate that people take interest in Sport class, I don't expect or want the warbird class to ever go away. And I think Thom Richard's P-40 will be a good reminder of why Reno exists. It's not for us as fans. It exists today because people love racing and flying their airplanes fast, and that is the only time the FAA will let them do so. You think the RV-8 pilots care when someone on the internet mouths off and says they are tired of the "girly airplanes"? No. They are too busy having a blast and wanting to go faster. Their team, friends, and family are having a blast. They don't do this because of the money. They do it because it is fun. We as fans get to benefit from that as spectators. So, I say all of that, because as long as people own warbirds and enjoy flying low and fast, the warbirds class will live on. It will never be like the post-war days when you could buy a P-63 for $1000, and the racing may never be as fast as the 2017-gold, but the class will be there. And as long as the class exists, there is opportunity for racers to be competitive and want to go faster.

I say this to hopefully offer a positive outlook on the future of the air races, but everyone has different expectations/goals, so my positive outlook might very well be negative to others. To which I can only say, I tried.

[GRNDP51]

Re: Unlimited fill in the blank

ROI, liability, risk of losing an airplane, etc. All very true.
I think that's part of why the other classes have fared better. They don't have the value as a WWII plane. (well the Vampire jet could be an exception) But think about it, you have a racing machine that you need to thrash to its limit with a clear conscience. That doesn't fit well with a rare and historically valuable $1.5 million warbird. And that's okay, provided competitors are given the means and are encouraged to adapt and do something new. Would have been nice if the Pond Racer were still around. Would have made the gold easily this year.

Also as much as I advocate that people take interest in Sport class, I don't expect or want the warbird class to ever go away. And I think Thom Richard's P-40 will be a good reminder of why Reno exists. It's not for us as fans. It exists today because people love racing and flying their airplanes fast, and that is the only time the FAA will let them do so. You think the RV-8 pilots care when someone on the internet mouths off and says they are tired of the "girly airplanes"? No. They are too busy having a blast and wanting to go faster. Their team, friends, and family are having a blast. They don't do this because of the money. They do it because it is fun. We as fans get to benefit from that as spectators. So, I say all of that, because as long as people own warbirds and enjoy flying low and fast, the warbirds class will live on. It will never be like the post-war days when you could buy a P-63 for $1000, and the racing may never be as fast as the 2017-gold, but the class will be there. And as long as the class exists, there is opportunity for racers to be competitive and want to go faster.

I say this to hopefully offer a positive outlook on the future of the air races, but everyone has different expectations/goals, so my positive outlook might very well be negative to others. To which I can only say, I tried.

I agree with this. I still lay on the side that says this year (and maybe a few more years) are just hiccups in the “system”, but your point about pilots having fun made the most sense to me. We enjoy the benefit as spectators, but the pilots do it for themselves. The Thibodeau family makes me think this... although Joe didn’t end up racing, he had his son race and I know that’s because he wanted him to feel what it’s like to race a warbird at Reno. I hope they’re both back next year and Joe is in one of their planes. I personally think he didn’t fly Eagle’s Wings because he didn’t have any time on this stick. That will be different next year! Mike Brown could’ve came because it’s fun, because he wanted to show off the Mustang, could be both and that’s fine with me, that’s what they SHOULD want to do! Dusty is bringing Lylia back because it’s FUN and he wants to keep making that plane faster. Even though Craig Hutain didn’t have a ride this year, he still attended PRS because he wants to race Unlimiteds! The passion is still out there, just maybe at a “cheaper” scale...

[RAD2LTR]

Re: Unlimited fill in the blank

I agree with this. I still lay on the side that says this year (and maybe a few more years) are just hiccups in the “system”, but your point about pilots having fun made the most sense to me. We enjoy the benefit as spectators, but the pilots do it for themselves. The Thibodeau family makes me think this... although Joe didn’t end up racing, he had his son race and I know that’s because he wanted him to feel what it’s like to race a warbird at Reno. I hope they’re both back next year and Joe is in one of their planes. I personally think he didn’t fly Eagle’s Wings because he didn’t have any time on this stick. That will be different next year! Mike Brown could’ve came because it’s fun, because he wanted to show off the Mustang, could be both and that’s fine with me, that’s what they SHOULD want to do! Dusty is bringing Lylia back because it’s FUN and he wants to keep making that plane faster. Even though Craig Hutain didn’t have a ride this year, he still attended PRS because he wants to race Unlimiteds! The passion is still out there, just maybe at a “cheaper” scale...

I also agree. I think there is a bright future for the unlimiteds ahead. There are still people who want to go fast because they can. I made the comment to Dusty that if he's able to run 400+ next year, he could end up on the podium. He reply was along the lines of he just wants to go faster and isn't much of a podium guy and that he'd send his crew chief up if it were to happen. Obviously that isn't speaking for all the guys out there, but it might be.

I think its a bit like vintage car racing. There is no $ to be won, just $ to be lost, yet when you have several Ferrari 250 GTOs in the field (worth about $40M each) that is some SERIOUS $ being spent to go fast. I'd bet a rebuild on one of those Columbo V12s is as much if not more than a rebuild of a race prepped Merlin. The guys who take vintage racing seriously take it very seriously and spend WAY more a year than what it would cost to run Strega, Voodoo, Rare Bear or any of the other fast unlimiteds. It could simply be that the people who own them are just tired of running them, yet they aren't done with them and could come back at a later date when the wish to run comes back. (Like with Mike Brown)

I say give it time, let RARA get their stuff together, find some sponsorship and the fast guys will return. In the meantime, enjoy seeing the Full Noises, On Eagles Wings, Lylia's, and the others come out and fly fast.

Will