***VIRUS WARNING***

[AAFO_WSagar]

When will it ever end! Because we run our own mailserver here, we've become aware of a problem that some of you might not have the advantage of seeing as a phony deal right away.

We've been getting bogus emails, supposedly from the aafo.com "email management team", which, of course, does not exist, telling users of this system (only me, sorry virus guys... busted) that we have to open some file that this email sends in order to keep our email account up to date (bogus).. again, of course, this email does not originate at aafo, it's from whomever/wherever the virus attempt is being sent from (headers have shown several different originating addresses, likely, infected machines spreading the new viri)...

The warning I'm trying to get accross is that your own bogus "email management" team, from your Internet provider is likely to be contacting you... DON'T OPEN THE ATTACHMENTS AND IF YOU DO NOT ALREADY HAVE NORTON OR SOME OTHER VIRUS PROTECTION GET IT NOW!

Another way this seems to be going out is that you'll get a message from the "team" saying that some users have been complaining about virus content coming from you and you need to open the file that they send you to keep from doing it further... yea.. right... it's the bug!!!!

So bottom line, never open attachments that you don't know where they come from, and even then, be very careful! And ALWAYS have an up to date Virus protection program checking your mail before you open it.

Just a heads up, hope it helps.

Wayne

[Pylon1_Mark]

I opened an email that was from someone I knew, but wasn't expecting anything from them. Usually hesitant about that kind of stuff, I figured it was OK - only to find out later it was some worm that started sending out emails automatically (I assumed it was sending them out the virus too). Glad I have XP installed... just restored the system to a date well before I opened that email and eliminated that virus. Norton didn't detect the worm virus either... must be a new one since I did just update my virus deffinition files 5 days previous.

Be careful out there guys.... even if you know who the email is from - unless you are expecting an attachment from them - don't open that stuff. All bad

[Peashooter]

Two good solutions: 1) Anti-virus software; and 2) check if your ISP has a webmail server which you can check online and delete questionable messages before opening them. Norton, Trend or any of the top anti-virus packages work really well and are well worth the price. Install a condom! Peas

[BadIdea]

try again

Originally posted by Peashooter
Two good solutions: 1) Anti-virus software; and 2) check if your ISP has a webmail server which you can check online and delete questionable messages before opening them. Norton, Trend or any of the top anti-virus packages work really well and are well worth the price. Install a condom! Peas

Them most effective solution is not to use Microsoft products.
Almost all these exploits take advantage of defects in Microsoft products.
It is an easy and almost foolproof fix.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: try again

Originally posted by BadIdea
Them most effective solution is not to use Microsoft products.
Almost all these exploits take advantage of defects in Microsoft products.
It is an easy and almost foolproof fix.

LOL Bad Idea... bad idea if you have to use a lot of graphic programs, and have an investment in MS based products..

A good first line of defense for viri, for the windoze user anyway, is to first, not use Outlook for email!!!

I use Eudora Pro, it has some pretty good security settings, like NO HTML content in emails. I also use Norton, set to grab virus attachments before they are even available.. Then also, I've got Zone Alarm pro set to strip attachments that have questionable file extensions.

I've also gone the extra yard or two at the server level. The server that aafo runs on has a virus checker at the remote box that checks both incoming and outgoing mails for "known" virus content. It's like any other virus protection, however, only as good as the definition set.. So keeping it upgraded is mucho important... which it and Norton are supposed to do automatically.

This latest one was not yet defined by Norton or "clam" before I got the first attempt. Now, clam is not finding it at the server but Norton is catching it before I "catch" it..

It's also a good idea when someone thinks a virus comes from what it says on the "from" portion of the email to look at the complete header to see where it actually does come from. Usually, it's from an infected machine that (likely) has the "from" user in their address book or contained in a mail on their system..

It's just always good to keep a heads up for all of these things!

For instance, I just "had" to open a zip file... checked it first, showed clean, had what it was supposed to have in it.. (images) but it does give one pause!

Wayne

[BadIdea]

Re: Re: try again

Originally posted by AAFO_WSagar
LOL Bad Idea... bad idea if you have to use a lot of graphic programs, and have an investment in MS based products..

You do make a good point about the investment aspect.
It is possible to have quite a bit tied up in various programs.
For an experiment keep a running total of your time spent dealing with things like viruses, anti virus programs and related issues.
If you multiply this time by your shop rate it doesn't take too long before it the time/money spent starts to catch up with your investment.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Re: Re: try again

Originally posted by BadIdea
You do make a good point about the investment aspect.
It is possible to have quite a bit tied up in various programs.
For an experiment keep a running total of your time spent dealing with things like viruses, anti virus programs and related issues.
If you multiply this time by your shop rate it doesn't take too long before it the time/money spent starts to catch up with your investment.

Hummn.. maybe for some but for me, really not. I hardly ever have to deal with virus messages, because most of them are deleted at the server prior to being sent, in fact, the messages are deleted and I don't even get *most* of them..

Again, most of the rest are caught by Norton or the local firewall stripping.

No matter what system I used locally, I'd still get the same amount sent to me that are currently sent...

Out of curosity, what is your OS of choice? If Mac.. that'd be a big issue for most of us because we run Intel based systems and I don't think we could convert just the OS... if linux, then we'd be in big trouble with all our windows based graphic stuff, etc..

Personally, I've got a batch of proggys that I use that have been collected over the period of years I've been doing this, stretching back to pre 1997. Some are pretty outdated but do the job... I'd be hard pressed to try to duplicate them..

Wayne

[BadIdea]

more?

You would, in your case also need to add the cost of Norton, the time spent using Norton, the cost of the firewall and its setup and maint., the cost of your special mail server, the time spent not getting legit attachments to the previous total.
Also the time spent applying the patch for the exploit of the week.

I hate to see people do more work that they have to.
Would be curious to know what function you perform that can only be done under windows?
I do in fact use OSX.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: more?

Originally posted by BadIdea
You would, in your case also need to add the cost of Norton, the time spent using Norton, the cost of the firewall and its setup and maint., the cost of your special mail server, the time spent not getting legit attachments to the previous total.
Also the time spent applying the patch for the exploit of the week.

I hate to see people do more work that they have to.
Would be curious to know what function you perform that can only be done under windows?
I do in fact use OSX.

Hummn..

Norton: Norton is basically cheap, costs something like $15. per year to keep the virus sig's up to date, first year is free.

Norton time: None really, it updates in the background, installation takes but a few seconds...

Firewall: Available free, though I don't know if the free version has the email safety net built in.. Pro version that I use was about $30 and I've used it for years, would need/want it, no matter what OS I ran. Setup and maintence of the firewall on my personal machine is pretty much a no brainer, time spent would have to be spent no matter what OS I used.

Firewall at server: cost, zero zip nada.. Open source, manually configured at command line, fairly time easy once setup, a MUST have for any system exposed to the internet.

Attachments: I do not think that I lose any valid one's. I've never had it delete anything other than attachments that I'd not open anway due to the extension being suspect.

Special Mail Server Cost: Zero, zip, nada.. open source Linux (which is what we run on the server at the datacenter)

Exploit of the week: At the server, it updates its virus sigs automatically every day, several times a day. Though we're dependent on whomever is doing the updates to be, up to date. Norton also applies its patces automatically but is also dependent in same way clam is..

Windows only: If it ain't broke... don't fix it..

Wayne

[BadIdea]

Re: Re: more?

Originally posted by AAFO_WSagar
Hummn..

Norton: Norton is basically cheap, costs something like $15. per year to keep the virus sig's up to date, first year is free.

Norton time: None really, it updates in the background, installation takes but a few seconds...

Firewall: Available free, though I don't know if the free version has the email safety net built in.. Pro version that I use was about $30 and I've used it for years, would need/want it, no matter what OS I ran. Setup and maintence of the firewall on my personal machine is pretty much a no brainer, time spent would have to be spent no matter what OS I used.

Firewall at server: cost, zero zip nada.. Open source, manually configured at command line, fairly time easy once setup, a MUST have for any system exposed to the internet.

Attachments: I do not think that I lose any valid one's. I've never had it delete anything other than attachments that I'd not open anway due to the extension being suspect.

Special Mail Server Cost: Zero, zip, nada.. open source Linux (which is what we run on the server at the datacenter)

Exploit of the week: At the server, it updates its virus sigs automatically every day, several times a day. Though we're dependent on whomever is doing the updates to be, up to date. Norton also applies its patces automatically but is also dependent in same way clam is..

Windows only: If it ain't broke... don't fix it..

Wayne

Are you serious?
Are you saying that the box to run the server on is free, the electircity is free, datacenter is free, the manhours to set this up if free.

A server running a firewall is a "MUST have for any system exposed to the internet"
WOW, You must be kidding!

" Windows only: If it ain't broke... don't fix it.. "

If you can't connect your computer to the internet without a whole elaborate infrastructure to protect it, IT IS "BROKE", Badly "BROKE".

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Re: Re: more?

Hummn...

Are you serious?
Are you saying that the box to run the server on is free, the electircity is free, datacenter is free, the manhours to set this up if free.

No, I can only wish that the server/datacenter charges that show up on my credit card monthly were just a joke. I pay for the server, now if I didn't, how could there be an aafo.com? Somebody has to pay for the box for any website, be it as just web space on *someone's* server or, as in my case, I lease an entire box at a datacenter. I also pay for the manhours to set it up, and maintain it.. Mostly my own but, no matter what OS ran on that server, *somebody* would have to do it and that equates to cost. I think one of us is missing something in this part of the thread..

A server running a firewall is a "MUST have for any system exposed to the internet"
WOW, You must be kidding!

I don't care what OS you are running, if you are connected to the Internet, your system could be comprimised by someone with smarts enough to get into your system, so I repeat... If you have *any* computer, be it at a datacenter or on your desk, and that computer is connected to the Internet, you *should* have a firewall installed, either a software firewall or separate hardware firewall...

If you can't connect your computer to the internet without a whole elaborate infrastructure to protect it, IT IS "BROKE", Badly "BROKE".

Ok, I'll bite.. care to explain that one to me? I know Linux and Windows, I admit, I do not know OS2 but would find it hard to believe that it was invulnerable to intrusion when connected to the Internet.

Certainly Windows is vulnerable, Linux also.. Don't know Mac OS but suspect if it's a networkable OS, then it could be comprimised. Also, would suspect, that if OS2 has networkable system, it too could be had by a savvy cracker..

I drive a Chevy and love it, some people I know drive Fords and love them equally and can't understand why I like my Chevy.. I have an automatic and love that, others I know swear by their stick shift.. I used to love VW's (though I wonder why!).. What I drive does not matter as long as it gets me where I'm going.

Computers and their OS's are the exact same thing IMHO..

Wayne

[BadIdea]

off track

I think you are right we did get a bit off track.

I don't know of any remote exploits for the Classic Mac OS <9.2 and the only exploits for OSX I know of require local/physical access to the machine.

There are very few virus that have any effect on my end if you don't run outlook.

My cheezy quadra webserver at home is only down when the power goes out.

I don't know everything or even much sometimes but this has been my experiance.
If I know a better way, I want to share it with my friends.

Sure would seem like a more simple solution to have a computer that is secure to start with than expect people to run a seperate box for a firewall.


P.S.
Mike Brown is overhead in the Tigercat as we speak.

[AAFO_WSagar]

KEWL! (bout the TC) What's he doin up Reno way???

Didn't know that you couldn't get into a Mac box via the net..

As for separate box, my firewalls, both at the server at the DC and at home are "software" iptables is open source and it's really just a packet filter with rulesets.. once the rules are written, it's a pretty simple matter to add/subtract IP's or ranges of IP's for various ports or, in some cases, all ports..

As for running a server at home, there is no way that the bandwidth could be kept up with for aafo and the few other sites that I run on my leased box. I get a great deal for both machine specs and bandwidth. HUGE pipes, way beyond what we could have at home for a reasonable price and last year, the DC had a power fire (outside the building) and for almost two weeks, they ran it on aux power without one moment of downtime!

NO way I could hope to equal that by running off my admittedly very good shared T1/campus network here at my apartment.

Anyway.. I'll let you go play with Mike!!

Wayne

[AAFO_WSagar]

OS X Firewall..

Badidea.. Just did a google for Mac and OSX firewalls.. both have firewalls built in, as does WinXP.. so, there must be ways into a networked Mac or OSX box, if the firewall is turned off, that is..

I personally don't use the firewall that's built into XP, because I already had Zone alarm and I'm familiar with its workings.. but once again, methinks the old "saw" that if it's connected to the internet and not firewalled, it's vulnerable is a trueisim..

Shields up baby!!



Wayne

[BadIdea]

stuck

I would surely agree that if you are stuck with windows a firewall is a good idea.

I still contend that the best and easiest defense it to avoid Microsoft products in the first place.