Reno Air Races 2020

[Bob]

Re: Reno Air Races 2020

The insurance companies will stop them, i can only imagine the field day attorneys would have if RAR became a vector for a new outbreak. Insurance companies are incredibly capable when it comes to limiting their own liability. Reno 2020 isnt going to happen.

I remain cautiously optimistic that we'll be racing in September.

As things move forward I would not be surprised to see the pace pick up RE: what gets opened and when. Perhaps not, but human nature being what it is, think folks will get more than anxtious to get back to some semblence of normal. And it's not beyond the realm of possibility that folks who are "jonesin'" for an airshow of any kind might be inclined to make their way to Reno.

Lot's of unknowns of course, but I am still in the "Damn the Torpedo's, Full Speed Ahead!" mode.

[Leo]

Re: Reno Air Races 2020

As per the 5:30 news this morning Hot August Nights, Rib Fest, Wing Fest, Balloon Races and Air Races are still on. Will see once they gets closer what happens. Maybe I am being a bit over-cautious (we have lost some friends and a relative to this bug) but I just don't think large gatherings are a good idea until we have at least a decent treatment for this thing.

[Guest]

Re: Reno Air Races 2020

The insurance companies will stop them, i can only imagine the field day attorneys would have if RAR became a vector for a new outbreak. Insurance companies are incredibly capable when it comes to limiting their own liability. Reno 2020 isnt going to happen.

EDIT: 05/13 -
You may be right re: 2020 and we're all entitled to our opinions. I respectfully disagree with the insurance aspect to some degree, however. Speaking only as an interested party here, not as RARA staff:

First, every ticket to the event has what is referred to as an "exculpatory clause." Basically, when you purchase a ticket and enter the gate, you agree to hold the event organizer harmless and waive any liability claims against the event organizer. Some of these can depend upon the state in which the event takes place and it may be subject to the event organizer taking reasonable steps to ensure the safety and health of its attendees. Now there are a few caveats here but essentially: so long as RARA follows the guidelines put out by the state and local regulatory agencies, and takes reasonable steps to mitigate the potential of infection (signage encouraging social distancing, all marketing mat'ls encouraging use of masks, possibly handing out sanitizer, etc), they will be on fairly solid ground. That said, fact remains nothing printed on the back of any ticket or pit pass will prevent someone from filing a claim. That's the nature our our litigious society and the risk event organizers take in order to put on an event. And it's possible the coverage RARA has may exclude communicable diseases...dont' know.

Second, no doubt RARA is in discussions with their insurance broker, carrier, and underwriters regarding this very question. I know other shows I was/am scheduled to work this year (lost four shows this year) are having those very same discussions. This subject matter is front and center for everyone in this industry right now and knowing the RARA Board as I do, it is front and center on their minds as well. I don't believe they'd move forward if their analysis indicates the risk vs. reward is unacceptable.

Again, it's entirely possible we won't race this year...but it's entirely possible we will. Lot's of unknowns here and many moving parts that are outside RARA's (or anyone else's) control. Take it a day at a time. Hope for the best and plan for it...if it turns out otherwise, so be it. But it won't be because RARA was not prepared.

[GRNDP51]

Re: Reno Air Races 2020

Most of us probably got the survey.

From my point of view, it's looking like the big decision won't be if Reno is "allowed" to happen, but if it's the right choice to have the event financially.

I see 4 possible outcomes:

RARA has the event and nobody shows up
RARA has the event and it draws a great crowd since people want to get out and do something
RARA doesn't hold the event and their finances drop significantly to a point that might make 2021 and beyond impossible
RARA doesn't hold the event and their finances stay relatively stable

I think that RARA holding the event would put them in the same position financially as not holding the event, but they also have the chance a good amount of people showing up and it being a good year. If the event doesn't happen, the only positive is they might not lose money, but would that be the case?

[Desertdawg]

Re: Reno Air Races 2020

Just throwing stones at the can half full crowd.

Face covering required.

Brain storming thoughts

- Advance ticket purchasers get a a custom wearable bandana (with velcro closing strap in back), in a choice of various team colors. They could employ VoS Apparel for this, helping out the local economy.

- Gate ticket purchasers get a 2020 Reno Air Race wearable bandana (with velcro closing strap in back). Again, going to help local entrepenures.

[Race5]

Re: Reno Air Races 2020

Most of us probably got the survey.



I think that RARA holding the event would put them in the same position financially as not holding the event, but they also have the chance a good amount of people showing up and it being a good year. If the event doesn't happen, the only positive is they might not lose money, but would that be the case?

The issue is how much RARA has already spent toward holding the event this year, and how much of that $$$ cannot be refunded / recovered. Plus the need (possibly, I obviously don't have access to their financials) to have income this year to pay debts that are coming due soon. Holding the event and having low turn out could be better than holding out for a year. The question is, where is that breaking point? Then there is the issue of vendors etc. I'm sure there are some that don't want to take the risk, and some may not even be in business any more. One of the main food vendors has already closed their doors.

[Reever]

Re: Reno Air Races 2020

I would like to know what the pilots and crews are thinking.

[Guest]

Re: Reno Air Races 2020

All good thoughts here, gents. Presale of tickets, vendor commitments, aircraft/pilot registrations, volunteer attendance (that's a big factor BTW), and many other points must be taken into account. No easy task.

I'd think pilot/aircraft registration is a key indicator of how the teams feel. Those registration deadlines have been extended (date escapes me at this time) but that's be an interesting gauge.

I do know that one show has already said they're going ahead with their show (somebody had to go first). Thunder Over Cedar Creek in Mabank TX on the Fourth of July. A bit unique in that it's a smaller footpring and much of the crowd is viewing from their boat...sorta social distancing my defintion (unless of course they start rafting off each other!). Be interesting to see how it goes. That's the first one I know of at this point...but it's a step in the right direction.

If I had to bet an amount of money that made me nervous, things being as they are, I'd say we're going to fly.

I've proposed a couple "swag" things for folks who purchase early or even come through the gate and they are under consideration (right along the lines of those mentioned below). But RARA has many and MUCH bigger things on their plate right now.

Keep putting good thoughts out in the universe, folks. With any luck at all...

[GRNDP51]

Re: Reno Air Races 2020

Dawg, I like the ideas!

Jason, that’s how I thought of it too. I wasn’t sure how much money has been spent to date, but thought an alright turnout would be the same if not better than cutting it off now.

Owen, I just got off the phone with one of Thunder Over Michigan’s head honcho’s and they just submitted something to the government with their plans and ideas. Some of those things were no static display areas, etc. They are waiting on a response to see how their show will have to be played out. Again, I don’t personally see it being a matter of if RARA is allowed to hold the event, but regarding bodies through the gates, if RARA has ANY positive feedback from a government agency that could be used as a way to attract people, that could be very helpful. Something along the lines of per the government we will be mandating this and that, adding hand sanitizing stations, masks must be worn in the pits, etc. but since it is the GOVERNMENT saying you should do these things to hold a safe event, all those fanatics that listen to everything the government spits out might think they can safely attend Reno now that the government said they can. This is really stupid, but it’s how a lot of people work.

[GRNDP51]

Re: Reno Air Races 2020

Another thought I had, what does RARA have to lose in trying to make the races happen, even if they cancel them a week before? Are there costs that would be incurred between now and race week that I'm not thinking of?

Basically, RARA says the show is going on, more people buy advanced tickets. They cancel the races a week before, a lot of those people will probably donate their ticket funds to RARA instead of asking for a refund. If they cancel the races now, NOBODY else buys tickets and the chance they donate "just because" is slim. In fact, if RARA cancels the races I bet a lot of people (even fans) will completely forget about them until HOPEFULLY next year (holding my breath that we can even have a Reno '21 if we don't have a Reno '20...), just like they have with Oshkosh, Sun N Fun, etc. Once it's cancelled, there's no more talk, nobody is thinking about donating, everyone either goes on as normal or starts focusing their attention towards the next airshow they hope happens, the next event they have tickets for, etc. Right now, Reno is a huge focus and I know for a fact a lot of the airshows that haven't cancelled are watching what RARA does to determine their next steps. RARA is in the spotlight here and it would be amazing to see them succeed.

There is plenty of chat around social media with people holding on to hope that Reno goes on and they will continue to do so until RARA makes a dreadful announcement. People are pissed. Everyone is tired of this crap and it goes without saying that the majority of race fans aren't people who have been sitting at home with their hazmat suits on since March. I for one would be a lot more understanding if the races were cancelled a week before, because I know RARA did all they could to try to make it happen, until there was just no more time left....

[Lockheed Bob]

Re: Reno Air Races 2020

I see where the Paul Allen Air Museum in WA is closing up & thanking everyone concerned. Maybe they will let some of planes show up @ Reno to at least fly around the pylons?

[PowerByPackard]

Re: Reno Air Races 2020

Another thought I had, what does RARA have to lose in trying to make the races happen, even if they cancel them a week before? Are there costs that would be incurred between now and race week that I'm not thinking of?

Basically, RARA says the show is going on, more people buy advanced tickets. They cancel the races a week before, a lot of those people will probably donate their ticket funds to RARA instead of asking for a refund. If they cancel the races now, NOBODY else buys tickets and the chance they donate "just because" is slim. In fact, if RARA cancels the races I bet a lot of people (even fans) will completely forget about them until HOPEFULLY next year (holding my breath that we can even have a Reno '21 if we don't have a Reno '20...), just like they have with Oshkosh, Sun N Fun, etc. Once it's cancelled, there's no more talk, nobody is thinking about donating, everyone either goes on as normal or starts focusing their attention towards the next airshow they hope happens, the next event they have tickets for, etc. Right now, Reno is a huge focus and I know for a fact a lot of the airshows that haven't cancelled are watching what RARA does to determine their next steps. RARA is in the spotlight here and it would be amazing to see them succeed.

There is plenty of chat around social media with people holding on to hope that Reno goes on and they will continue to do so until RARA makes a dreadful announcement. People are pissed. Everyone is tired of this crap and it goes without saying that the majority of race fans aren't people who have been sitting at home with their hazmat suits on since March. I for one would be a lot more understanding if the races were cancelled a week before, because I know RARA did all they could to try to make it happen, until there was just no more time left....

In short, they have a ton to lose. Teams, performers, fans all make plans and then are told a week out that it’s a no go? Creates a logistical nightmare for everyone (including the town of Reno, food vendors, hotels, etc.) and they run the risk of losing good will with the people that help make the races go.

Also, I think Leo said it in this thread or another and he was right on, the enthusiasm will remain for the races if we have to wait until next year. But if the air races are held this year and by some small chance a minor spread of the virus occurs as a result, it would be a big deal. Especially with so many other events making the conservative and prudent decision to cancel or postpone. What do people think of the races then? Will they come back? I don’t know if they survive that.

About three weeks ago RARA called me because my brothers and my small company are a chalet sponsor for the races. They had two simple questions. 1) If they have the races this year, would we come? 2) If they don’t have the races, would we still sponsor next year? Question 2 was easy. Hell yes I would be back and still sponsor. Question 1 is more complicated. Would I show up? Probably. But how could I in good conscience tell my guests it’s a good idea to come join me in a huge crowd during a pandemic that we have no treatment or vaccine for yet? I can’t do that. And that’s what it really boils down to. Either way, I will still show up year after year because I love Reno with same passion that everyone on this forum does.

Long live the Reno Air Races. I hope the board navigates this in a way that gives us many more Septembers in the high desert.

[GRNDP51]

Re: Reno Air Races 2020

In short, they have a ton to lose. Teams, performers, fans all make plans and then are told a week out that it’s a no go? Creates a logistical nightmare for everyone (including the town of Reno, food vendors, hotels, etc.) and they run the risk of losing good will with the people that help make the races go.

Also, I think Leo said it in this thread or another and he was right on, the enthusiasm will remain for the races if we have to wait until next year. But if the air races are held this year and by some small chance a minor spread of the virus occurs as a result, it would be a big deal. Especially with so many other events making the conservative and prudent decision to cancel or postpone. What do people think of the races then? Will they come back? I don’t know if they survive that.

About three weeks ago RARA called me because my brothers and my small company are a chalet sponsor for the races. They had two simple questions. 1) If they have the races this year, would we come? 2) If they don’t have the races, would we still sponsor next year? Question 2 was easy. Hell yes I would be back and still sponsor. Question 1 is more complicated. Would I show up? Probably. But how could I in good conscience tell my guests it’s a good idea to come join me in a huge crowd during a pandemic that we have no treatment or vaccine for yet? I can’t do that. And that’s what it really boils down to. Either way, I will still show up year after year because I love Reno with same passion that everyone on this forum does.

Long live the Reno Air Races. I hope the board navigates this in a way that gives us many more Septembers in the high desert.

A week may have been an exaggeration, but as my post said I think it would be honorable of RARA to hold out as long as they can, whether that’s be a week out or a month out.

I really think in 2 weeks we are going to know if this covid stuff is overplayed. The protests and riots are chaotic crowds that could care less about wearing a mask, and we are still more or less not at the peak yet. If there aren’t any spikes in cases where these things are happening, fat chance a controlled environment 3 months out will have few if any cases at all. But that’s a huge question mark we will know in 2 weeks or so...

I think if RARA takes proper precautions, and I really hope there ARE precautions and guidelines, it would be ridiculous for anyone attending to be upset with RARA if they happen to get covid because the event is held. That would mean the event was approved by the government, AND nobody forced you to go. How can you be upset with RARA at that point? Another thing I said was sure it may be stereotyping, but I consider a large demographic of attendees to be those who think covid is ridiculous and want their lives back. Most of us will be a lot happier to go and risk the very low chance of getting the virus, than see another event suffer because of politics.

[Guest]

Re: Reno Air Races 2020

A week may have been an exaggeration, but as my post said I think it would be honorable of RARA to hold out as long as they can, whether that’s be a week out or a month out.

I really think in 2 weeks we are going to know if this covid stuff is overplayed. The protests and riots are chaotic crowds that could care less about wearing a mask, and we are still more or less not at the peak yet. If there aren’t any spikes in cases where these things are happening, fat chance a controlled environment 3 months out will have few if any cases at all. But that’s a huge question mark we will know in 2 weeks or so...

I think if RARA takes proper precautions, and I really hope there ARE precautions and guidelines, it would be ridiculous for anyone attending to be upset with RARA if they happen to get covid because the event is held. That would mean the event was approved by the government, AND nobody forced you to go. How can you be upset with RARA at that point? Another thing I said was sure it may be stereotyping, but I consider a large demographic of attendees to be those who think covid is ridiculous and want their lives back. Most of us will be a lot happier to go and risk the very low chance of getting the virus, than see another event suffer because of politics.

So much of whether or not Reno (or ANY aviation event for that matter) can go off as planned, or in some other form, is going to be dictated by local, regional, and state officials. And those officials are challenged with trying to manage a situation (Wuhan and how a communicty reacts to each "Phase" of reopening) whose dynamics are both known and unknown.

One major show I lost a couple weeks ago cancelled and essentially it was this: We know what we know. And we know what we don't know. It's what we don't know we don't know that keeps us up at night. Local and regional governments are continually changing the rules and in so many cases, it does not seem to be based on science. For example, some beaches here were opened to water activities (surfing, swimming, etc), BUT: you couldn't park in the parking lot, warned about walk in the wet sand...only the dry sand; you could not stop walking and sit down in the sand, no game-playing (volleyball, etc). Yet, same group of folks go the Park (not a beach), you can park you car, sit in the grass, play volleyball, etc. I've sent three differnent emails to county supervisors asking on what basis they've made these decisions and under what authority are they closing these public spaces. What I got back was a page of political pablum. How in the world does a major outdoor event plan in a world where such non-sense is running amok. I found the attached interesting. Remind me again why we shut down the worlds largest and strongest economy over two month ago, and in many places it remains so?

I don't envy anyone or any board that's trying to weigh their options in this envirionment. So many factors at play...and many of them are not under anyones control or ability to predict with any certainty.

[supercub]

Re: Reno Air Races 2020

As a volunteer, I received an email from RARA asking if I would again volunteer this year in light of the covid 19 pandemic.
Personally, as it stands right now, I think RARA would be better off cancelling the races this year. Why, I believe it would be a big financial loss for RARA, to the extent it might have a significant impact on future races. Pass this year, which hopefully we will be past this pandemic and make the 2021 Air Races bigger and better then ever. Just my thought.