Random Shot Of The Day - Part 2

[knot4u]

Re: Second large 3-blade prop

Just for kicks you might want to know the governor for the bearcat three blade was just a bit smaller and a lot heavier than a football. The regulator for the Aeroproducts prop was more of a two handed or two person sort of thing. The original Bearcat regulator was like Chicago pizza, it was kind of heavy but you could pick it up with one hand.

[knot4u]

Re: Second large 3-blade prop

Regarding a huge 3-blade prop that may or may not have been at the Sander's hangar, but was actually pictured at Ezell's. I know it has been discussed that "there was only one", but there *was* another 3-blade prop, at least in development... though it used square-tipped blades from a Lockheed L-188 instead of P-3 Orion blades. And indeed... at one point, it could be found at or around the Sander's facility. This was the prop that was planned to be used on "American Spirit", which was acquired by Mike Brown along with the first engine ultimately used on September Fury.

I have seen photos of this prop while it was at the Sander's shop. It's likely they had some idea to use it on the Sea Fury, though it was never implemented. Here it is attached to American Spirit:

That's an early P-3 Aeroproducts propeller in Daves back yard barn in the San Fernando Valley, I've been there and I've laid hands on that airplane. When the early C-130's and P-3's were introduced they had three blade props and controls from Aeroproducts. It didn't work well, the props and controls were great, getting four of them working together caused a harmonic resonance that fatigued the wing spars and started causing accidents when the wing spar would fail. So Hamilton Standard came in and developed a four blade prop with a synchrophaser and it seemed to work pretty good because there's still plenty flying all over the world. The blades on the Bearcat three blade were Hamilton Standard P-3, the hub is a Hamilton Standard Constellation deal. The prop in that picture is an Aeroproducts and there's nothing wrong with it, the only reason those props were not used was because you couldn't use them safely in a group of four, a single engine airplane wouldn't suffer those issues and would take advantage of all of the engineering that eventually got them built to power the C-130 and P-3. I've always wondered if Dave chose that prop to snub his nose at the Bearcat with the Hamilton Standard three blade he helped engineer. Oddly enough most of my conversations with Dave were in the "test bench room" at Cal-Prop who would still use him as a contractor to build some test benches or adapters.

[RichH]

Second large 3-blade prop

Regarding a huge 3-blade prop that may or may not have been at the Sander's hangar, but was actually pictured at Ezell's. I know it has been discussed that "there was only one", but there *was* another 3-blade prop, at least in development... though it used square-tipped blades from a Lockheed L-188 instead of P-3 Orion blades. And indeed... at one point, it could be found at or around the Sander's facility. This was the prop that was planned to be used on "American Spirit", which was acquired by Mike Brown along with the first engine ultimately used on September Fury.

I have seen photos of this prop while it was at the Sander's shop. It's likely they had some idea to use it on the Sea Fury, though it was never implemented. Here it is attached to American Spirit:

[knot4u]

Re: Random Shot Of The Day - Part 2

Notice that this was the time of the modified wing intakes. A mod that didn't work ?

Boil-off was always a Dave deal, and on paper it makes sense. I liked Dave, I worked with Dave away from air racing, I went to Dave and Bonnies house a few times and met the ridgebacks. Dave was very smart and wanted to change the world quickly. Greg Shaw was very smart and wanted to change the world one piece at a time. You can't change three things at the same time and assume any improvement you got was because of one of the three. One thing at a time and measure the improvement. I miss Dave and I miss Greg, I learned a lot from both.

[MRE]

Re: Random Shot Of The Day - Part 2

Notice that this was the time of the modified wing intakes. A mod that didn't work ?

[knot4u]

Re: Random Shot Of The Day - Part 2

I knew I saw the 3 blade prop on a hangar wall. It took me a while to find it. I took it on Thursday 9-14-2006.

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That's a nice picture of Bill Hickle. I was always envious, but not jealous, of his perfectly trimmed beard. Lots of 6' ladders too.

[Plane Nuts]

Re: Random Shot Of The Day - Part 2

I knew I saw the 3 blade prop on a hangar wall. It took me a while to find it. I took it on Thursday 9-14-2006.

[knot4u]

Re: Random Shot Of The Day - Part 2

As I said, a dirty Bear is a fast Bear. At that time, Bear was both dirty and fast. In more recent years, Bear has been clean, and not as fast. Whatever Mel Gregor and company were doing back then was clearly not being done by their successors. Sure the plane is clean, but its not as fast. There must be a correlation there somewhere

Will

With all due respect his name was Mel Gregoire. Another friend that I miss. If you were a man in your thirties and you invited an old friend over for BBQ and he stole not only your wifes heart but your dogs heart as well and he just smiled at you and you knew it was okay then maybe you knew someone like Mel. We actually did build a very clean engine once, but it was down on power, but not from anything we'd done. We blew it up. I'm not sure if I should say any more about that, it might be another one of those topics BCIV is in a better position to speak about.

[ZacYates]

Re: Random Shot Of The Day - Part 2

I was going to suggest at least it was cheaper than store-bought product, but you'd pay for it in toil and sweat instead!

[RAD2LTR]

Re: Random Shot Of The Day - Part 2

With regards to hair products, look at Gil's hat, it was probably new when we got there that week.

As I said, a dirty Bear is a fast Bear. At that time, Bear was both dirty and fast. In more recent years, Bear has been clean, and not as fast. Whatever Mel Gregor and company were doing back then was clearly not being done by their successors. Sure the plane is clean, but its not as fast. There must be a correlation there somewhere

Will

[knot4u]

Re: Random Shot Of The Day - Part 2

Well, in those days a fast Bear was an oily Bear, so if you didn't wear a hat, odds are, you'd end up with oil in one's hair.

I think the 3 blade went to Texas the first time the Bear did. That was why I was saying it would make sense if the pic I saw was at Ezell's, but I've got a pretty good memory, and the pic or video that I can't seem to find wasn't there. It wasn't the Bear cave either. I'm sure at this point more than a couple people think I'm smoking crack, since I can't find the pic/video I'm just going to let it go.

Will

With regards to hair products, look at Gil's hat, it was probably new when we got there that week.

[RAD2LTR]

Re: Random Shot Of The Day - Part 2

That's Gil and I either removing or reinstalling the prop at Reno. There would normally be no reason to remove the spinner or prop if the engine wasn't broken, and it wasn't. It was a strange day. Maybe BCIV can chime in as to why we were tasked to remove it. And the dome is polished as I did correctly recall, there was some teflon and if you look close you can see why. I miss Gil, we worked very closely together outside of the Bearcat for a long time. And before anyone says anything about any "product" in my hair, there was, it's engine oil. That whole thing happened right at the edge of our pit and Gil and I were testing the limits of 6' ladders 5' from a very curious/enthusiastic crowd of fans.

Well, in those days a fast Bear was an oily Bear, so if you didn't wear a hat, odds are, you'd end up with oil in one's hair.

I think the 3 blade went to Texas the first time the Bear did. That was why I was saying it would make sense if the pic I saw was at Ezell's, but I've got a pretty good memory, and the pic or video that I can't seem to find wasn't there. It wasn't the Bear cave either. I'm sure at this point more than a couple people think I'm smoking crack, since I can't find the pic/video I'm just going to let it go.

Will

[knot4u]

Re: Random Shot Of The Day - Part 2

Shots without the spinner are unusual. Quite different ...

That's Gil and I either removing or reinstalling the prop at Reno. There would normally be no reason to remove the spinner or prop if the engine wasn't broken, and it wasn't. It was a strange day. Maybe BCIV can chime in as to why we were tasked to remove it. And the dome is polished as I did correctly recall, there was some teflon and if you look close you can see why. I miss Gil, we worked very closely together outside of the Bearcat for a long time. And before anyone says anything about any "product" in my hair, there was, it's engine oil. That whole thing happened right at the edge of our pit and Gil and I were testing the limits of 6' ladders 5' from a very curious/enthusiastic crowd of fans.

[wingman]

Re: Random Shot Of The Day - Part 2

Shots without the spinner are unusual. Quite different ...

[knot4u]

Re: Random Shot Of The Day - Part 2

Someone from Ezell's shop should know something about it. P51 A?

It's way too big for a Mustang. The modified cuffs on the obvious P-3 blades are pretty apparent even though they appear to be wrapped in cardboard or wrapping paper. Like I said before, anyone who has spent any time around it will recognize it quickly. It seems as if the mystery regarding the location of that prop is solved. If someone was to try to build a fake they wouldn't wrap it up, I suspect that's the one. I've pondered about what future purpose that prop might have, there are legal issues, and I still wonder who it could be sent to for inspection/overhaul (Cal-Prop doesn't exist anymore), and it's not just a plug and play to go from a Aeroproducts prop to a Hamilton Standard. I wonder what will happen to it? BCIV mentioned Barry Bearson, he was the owner of Cal-Prop when I worked there. I didn't work on props, I worked on prop controls, C-130 and P-3 stuff was our moneymaker, firebomber stuff was a close second and the warbird stuff was just icing on the cake. We did not work on small airplane propellers. When I joined the Bearcat team I was working as a newly appointed A/P at Santa Paula and eventually Gil offered me a job and I took it. I dont know if a place like Cal-Prop exists these days. The variety of what was going through that shop was pretty amazing. Trying to find a shop that would be willing to sign off any work on that prop might be difficult. Maybe it will end up as someones really cool ceiling fan.