Random Shot Of The Day - Part 2

[knot4u]

Re: Random Shot Of The Day - Part 2

I was under the impression there were two made. Still, since Rod Lewis owned both planes at the time, it would have been interesting to see what SF could have done with it.

If there was only one, why is it hangin in the back of Sanders shop?

Will

Can you post a picture of the prop in the Sanders hangar? If it's there it would be odd, but it has to be somewhere because it's not on the airplane anymore. Didn't the Sanders somehow get involved in the Cornell/Jackson American Spirit project at some point? I know Dave was planning on using a C-130A Aeroproducts prop, it would have three blades and be about the same size, maybe that's what's hanging on the wall. The Bearcat three blade is instantly recognizable to anyone who spent any time around it. A picture would really help.

[knot4u]

Re: Random Shot Of The Day - Part 2

I was under the impression there were two made. Still, since Rod Lewis owned both planes at the time, it would have been interesting to see what SF could have done with it.

If there was only one, why is it hangin in the back of Sanders shop?

Will

Can you post a picture of the prop in the Sanders hangar? If it's there it would be odd, but it has to be somewhere because it's not on the airplane anymore. Didn't the Sanders somehow get involved in the Cornell/Jackson American Spirit project at some point? I know Dave was planning on using a C-130A Aeroproducts prop, it would have three blades and be about the same size, maybe that's what's hanging on the wall. The Bearcat three blade is instantly recognizable to anyone who spent any time around it. A picture would really help. If someone did want to use it I'm not sure who you'd take it to for inspection/overhaul. If Keith Hironaka is still around getting him involved would be wise, he's disassembled/reassembled it more times than anyone else. I don't recall ever having an issue with that prop or the governors, but I overhauled and tested the governors so I'm probably biased.

[BellCobraIV]

Re: Random Shot Of The Day - Part 2

I was under the impression there were two made. Still, since Rod Lewis owned both planes at the time, it would have been interesting to see what SF could have done with it.

If there was only one, why is it hangin in the back of Sanders shop?

Will

knot4u, worked at the propeller shop, was an Integral part of the Rare Bear Team he knows of what he speaks. There was only one ever made, I can't tell you anything more than that.

[BellCobraIV]

Re: Random Shot Of The Day - Part 2

I'm still curious why none of the Sea Fury guys tried running a 3 blade like Bears. I'f I'm not mistaken, there is one hanging in Sanders shop on the back wall. Yes it was a handful on a Bearcat, but a Sea Fury is a whole lot more airframe to absorb the harmonics ect. I can only wonder how fast September Fury would have been with it. (It would have looked awesome as well.)

Will

Will,
Quite simply there never was a "3 Blades R Us" store. The design wasn't a resurrected World War 2 development program. It wasn't an experimental NACA program. The 3 blade propeller was designed in the minds of Carl Friend and Dave Cornell. Dave left the team the day after the surplus P-3
Orion blades were purchased for the project. We still had the research notes for the project and Carl Friend's input.

The 3 blade propeller modifications were proprietary, we took the modifications to the propeller shop. California Propeller Service did not come out and say, "Hey, we have this really great idea and are you interested?" No in fact when we approached them to build a propeller consisting of modified P3 blades with modified cuffs to clear the cowling based on using a 3 blade Constellation hub with specially created spacers so the blades would fit the hub Cal Prop thought about it quite deeply.

Finally Barry agreed to build and maintain the 3 blade for a fee with a planned ongoing inspection program. Part of the agreement required every one of my Lyle's closest living relatives to sign a release of liability in case of failure. They didn't want to be in the 3 Blade racing propeller business, plus it wasn't theirs to offer copies of. It was ours exclusively we assumed the risk, we got the rewards. Lyle never complained of the handling when he raced the plane. Point of fact as the crew we didn't have any inkling until John Penney brought the situation up. Lyle just used it because it went faster for the same power.

Bill Prewitt made the spinner backing plate out of billet aluminum and the carbon fiber spinner was made in-house by one of the fabricators of the B-2 Spirit prototype team. (We didn't know that then because nobody knew what a B-2 was) both the spinner and backing plate were designed to match the 4 blade diameter because the cowl opening and the afterbody were considered by now to be optimum.

Keep in mind to keep from cooking ignition coils and other items under the cowl a blower setup was devised for forcing air through the cowling after a run once the engine was shut off on the ground.

So in short the Sea Fury guys weren't ever offered one.

[RAD2LTR]

Re: Random Shot Of The Day - Part 2

That three bladed prop that used to be on the Bearcat is the only one ever built. There are no spares.

I was under the impression there were two made. Still, since Rod Lewis owned both planes at the time, it would have been interesting to see what SF could have done with it.

If there was only one, why is it hangin in the back of Sanders shop?

Will

[knot4u]

Re: Random Shot Of The Day - Part 2

I'm still curious why none of the Sea Fury guys tried running a 3 blade like Bears. I'f I'm not mistaken, there is one hanging in Sanders shop on the back wall. Yes it was a handful on a Bearcat, but a Sea Fury is a whole lot more airframe to absorb the harmonics ect. I can only wonder how fast September Fury would have been with it. (It would have looked awesome as well.)

Will

That three bladed prop that used to be on the Bearcat is the only one ever built. There are no spares.

[RAD2LTR]

Re: Random Shot Of The Day - Part 2

I'm still curious why none of the Sea Fury guys tried running a 3 blade like Bears. I'f I'm not mistaken, there is one hanging in Sanders shop on the back wall. Yes it was a handful on a Bearcat, but a Sea Fury is a whole lot more airframe to absorb the harmonics ect. I can only wonder how fast September Fury would have been with it. (It would have looked awesome as well.)

Will

[wingman]

Re: Random Shot Of The Day - Part 2

It did kinda draw the eye, I guess...

[BellCobraIV]

Re: Random Shot Of The Day - Part 2

For all the three blade fans...

Not as sharp as I'd like, but I love that pylon 8 angle. It's an experience to stand there and have this thing come over your head at 490mph! It's an impossible place to take Gold Race photos, but pylon 8 is the best place on the field to really experience a Gold Race.

Three blade propeller fan!!! Present!

[Carbonprop]

Re: Random Shot Of The Day - Part 2

I'd certainly be interested in exploring this. Steve Hill is a very big piece of the story, but it would be good to also get a man named Bill Rogers involved. He has posted here in the past as "Billro". Bill was crew chief for John Parker's championship efforts in Formula 1 and was involved in the great political battles between Eastern "sport plane" racers and what he considered the "real racers" in the West, as well as the propeller issues ongoing through everything. All this, with breaking metal props and crash landings was happening at much the same time. It was a very interesting and confusing (to insiders and to outsiders alike) time. Many interesting, complicated threads to the story. I wonder if Steve Hill would be interested in such a discussion?

Neal

I would participate.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Random Shot Of The Day - Part 2

Does seem that way.

Maybe a Mustang for today? I opened the window of the Press bus for this. It was much more comfortable than standing out in the sun and wind.

Neal

Have you ever had to pinch yourself to believe all the things you've gotten to experience in aviation?

Due to my memory loss, I get to rediscover things I've gotten to do by sorting through my files.

1997, just a fan who had discovered the power of the Internet..

Probably should be in the what a ride thread but.. Neal posting that shot just made me think of how extremely fortunate some of us are to get to experience stuff like this!

[wingman]

Re: Random Shot Of The Day - Part 2

I'd certainly be interested in exploring this. Steve Hill is a very big piece of the story, but it would be good to also get a man named Bill Rogers involved. He has posted here in the past as "Billro". Bill was crew chief for John Parker's championship efforts in Formula 1 and was involved in the great political battles between Eastern "sport plane" racers and what he considered the "real racers" in the West, as well as the propeller issues ongoing through everything. All this, with breaking metal props and crash landings was happening at much the same time. It was a very interesting and confusing (to insiders and to outsiders alike) time. Many interesting, complicated threads to the story. I wonder if Steve Hill would be interested in such a discussion?

Neal

[CJAM427]

Re: Random Shot Of The Day - Part 2

I remember reading about that flight in the NXT when it happened. A pretty epic flight.

Has anybody ever written up a coherent account of the IF1 propeller odyssey -- the catastrophic failures of the metal props, the struggles with wood in going really fast. and the development (pretty much by one man) of the carbon fibre variety at the end of the 1980s? That's one of the many really interesting things that have always been going on behind the scenes in Racing -- other examples might be fuels in T-6, props in Unlimited, kit vs one off in Sport, and on and on. The fans never see this stuff, but I find all this -- the engineering, the testing, the in-class politics -- really fascinating. There's a lot of Air Racing history that's never been written and may never be. You were around for some of the USARA-PRPA-IF1 battles that were tearing things apart in Jon's early racing days.

It sure was tight in that NXT cockpit. Crappy photo plane, too. It's a good thing it went so fast...

Neal

I'd love to learn more about the IF1 propeller odyssey, I really don't know much at all about it. Maybe we could start a separate thread?

[wingman]

Re: Random Shot Of The Day - Part 2

Does seem that way.

Maybe a Mustang for today? I opened the window of the Press bus for this. It was much more comfortable than standing out in the sun and wind.

Neal

[Carbonprop]

Re: Random Shot Of The Day - Part 2

I guess we killed this thread...