What If....2021

[Guest]

Re: What If....2021

I don't mind at all. Please use anything that would be helpful.


This sounds great! I would love that.


Yes, Bronze on Saturday, with Gold and Silver on Sunday would be great. My personal feeling here, is that even with things to interest the less die-hard fans, Sunday is special. If there are scheduling differences between the two days, I would rather have more racing on Sunday than Saturday.

If you are interested in shortening Sunday, my preference would be to run the F1 and Biplane silver and gold races on Saturday and start racing a bit later on Sunday. Actually, front loading the F1 and Biplane races earlier in the week might help, too, if it eases the weekend schedule. I don't think that that are a huge draw for non-racing fans, and those of us who are will still be there to support them, no matter when they race. A few of us in my group are always in the stands in time for the first race of the day.

Copy all, Wade. Thanks for clarifying, sir. I agree, Sunday is "special" and should involve top-shelf performances and entertainment. Well done!

[wingman]

Re: What If....2021

A lot of thinking going on -- a motivated crew here. And always remembering to keep your eyes on the goal...

[Guest]

Re: What If....2021

A lot of thinking going on -- a motivated crew here. And always remembering to keep your eyes on the goal...

Yessir...You'll never achieve your future goals if you're always lookin' at your past achievments.

[Fawkes]

Re: What If....2021

Well...let's just say it's the former shall we?!

I went back and looked at 2019 qual and racing skeds. We've discussed racing times per class below. Here's what we did for quals (somebody check my math!):

Monday and Tuesday per day (aggregate):
F1: 1:10 (2:20)
Bip: 1:00 (2:00)
T-6: 1:10 (2:20)
Sport: 2:15 (4:30)
Jet: 1:10 (2:20)
UNL: 1:00 (2:00)
TOTAL: 7:45 (15:30)

Wednesday:
F1: :40
Bip: :35
T-6: :30
Sport: 1:15
Jet: :30
UNL: :25

Total Time Allocated to qualify Monday thru Wed 1200):
F1: 3:00 (20 entries)
Bip: 2:35 (18 entries)
T-6: 2:50 (14 entries)
Sport: 5:45 (36 entries)
Jet: 2:50 (14 entries)
UNL: 2:25 (11 entries)

Essentially I'm discussing removing the Wednesday half-day qual period, in addition to fewer entries in F1, Bip, and Sport classes. I have no doubt we can reconstruct the qualification periods and make this happen in two days with some time to spare for your "Last Chance" event if need be. There is typically a fair amount of "dead-air" during any one qual period. It would be made known to each class that due to time constraints we cannot afford long periods of dead-air. Be ready on-time, launch, qual and recover. If a class has :10 or more of dead air on Wednesday, their time slot is shortened accordingly on Thursday.

I do like the racing format better than what I posted initially. Makes for a smoother, more balance event. Well done.

To my eye, your qual math holds but I was just an air traffic controller in a former life and we aren't particularly good with numbers so take my endorsement with a grain of salt!

The Friday afternoon/evening event needs to be something in that venn-diagram I was talking about. Something with some punch and that might bring in a group that shares a motorsport passion. For example, I recently bought a Bullitt Edition Mustang. The owners club does a yearly gathering which draws nationally and beyond. How about a Mustangs and Mustangs gathering downtown where fans can meet the racers, see the cars, maybe some music, etc. Just using something I know as an example - I'm sure there are other (better) options. Not looking to replicate HAN a month later but some sort of intentional tie-in makes sense (at least on the surface.) You might could even create a space inside the gate on Sat/Sun for some of the cars to be on display. I'll offer up mine (out of the kindness of my heart, of course!)

Of course, if the show on Saturday is scheduled to end in the 1530-1600 range, that begs the question of what could be done in that time frame too. On the other hand, for the "regular" attendee, the lure of the casinos and good restaurants may make that night less of a ROI than a Friday afternoon/evening event (which I think would be a pretty solid bet.)

For Sunday, the earlier end helps those who are local or within driving distance which helps with the accessibility ("CAN") component of those kitchen table conversations.

James

[Guest]

Re: What If....2021

To my eye, your qual math holds but I was just an air traffic controller in a former life and we aren't particularly good with numbers so take my endorsement with a grain of salt!

The Friday afternoon/evening event needs to be something in that venn-diagram I was talking about. Something with some punch and that might bring in a group that shares a motorsport passion. For example, I recently bought a Bullitt Edition Mustang. The owners club does a yearly gathering which draws nationally and beyond. How about a Mustangs and Mustangs gathering downtown where fans can meet the racers, see the cars, maybe some music, etc. Just using something I know as an example - I'm sure there are other (better) options. Not looking to replicate HAN a month later but some sort of intentional tie-in makes sense (at least on the surface.) You might could even create a space inside the gate on Sat/Sun for some of the cars to be on display. I'll offer up mine (out of the kindness of my heart, of course!)

Of course, if the show on Saturday is scheduled to end in the 1530-1600 range, that begs the question of what could be done in that time frame too. On the other hand, for the "regular" attendee, the lure of the casinos and good restaurants may make that night less of a ROI than a Friday afternoon/evening event (which I think would be a pretty solid bet.)

For Sunday, the earlier end helps those who are local or within driving distance which helps with the accessibility ("CAN") component of those kitchen table conversations.

James

Have a degree in ATC from Green River Comm College and was off to OKC...until Reagan and PATCO had a bit of a disagreement. Thus...my ask for folks to check my math!

[CubersWrist]

Re: What If....2021

If this plan goes forward I think it would be important to present it as a choice. Reno is for the racers but the cost of the whole week is too much. So either the entry fee/prize money needs to be substantially readjusted and/or the event needs to be shorter.

If RARA does not handle this well the public outcry and the pilot outcry will not be good.

I also wouldn’t be surprised if bad blood broke out between classes because now you have a socialism-style problem where, if teams have to do more to cover costs of insurance for the event the immediate question is which classes cost the most so they can pay “their fair share”. This already kinda happens with the distribution of prize money. Best option I think is probably the F1 route and require the class presidents to negotiate and agree on the percentages. Otherwise I see bad things being said about RARA.

[Guest]

Re: What If....2021

If this plan goes forward I think it would be important to present it as a choice. Reno is for the racers but the cost of the whole week is too much. So either the entry fee/prize money needs to be substantially readjusted and/or the event needs to be shorter.

If RARA does not handle this well the public outcry and the pilot outcry will not be good.

I also wouldn’t be surprised if bad blood broke out between classes because now you have a socialism-style problem where, if teams have to do more to cover costs of insurance for the event the immediate question is which classes cost the most so they can pay “their fair share”. This already kinda happens with the distribution of prize money. Best option I think is probably the F1 route and require the class presidents to negotiate and agree on the percentages. Otherwise I see bad things being said about RARA.

Thomas,
When you say "present it as a choice"...to whom? The Class presidents and allow each Class to determine how they would "vote?" To the public in some form of survey? To the vounteers to gauge whether you could staff the event properly? All the above...none of the above? Interesting thought...curious how you see that going down.

There is a school of thought out there that the airshow exists mainly to defray to costs to the racing side of the house and pay the freight. In much the same way NCAA college football budgets write the checks for mens gymnastics, women's volleyball, etc. They likely could not stand on their own, at least not in their current form, without that support.

I have no idea whether that's true or not as I'm not privy to the numbers but I'd suspect there is more than a grain of truth to that thinking. Reno is in a very unique spot in that regard, unlike almost every other "aviation event." On the one hand, as you say, Reno is about racing, first and foresmost. Has been for decades. On the other hand, if you removed the airshow component from the equation, Reno would not survive. So, how do you draw the balance? Reno must embrace the airshow component in order to keep the doors open, but not so much that it turns into just another airshow. I agree with that entirely.

I'd like to believe the classes would work together for their mutual benefit. They do have that history. That's not to say there isn't friction here and there, but that's to be expected given the nature of the event and the personalities involved. Lot's of Alpha Males in the room! Having spent 10yrs. as an NCAA basketball official I'm not sure which I prefer more (or less)...college coaches or hot-shot pilots!

[CubersWrist]

Re: What If....2021

I'm saying present the choice to the class presidents. They are the ones that can complain or abstain if RARA forces a solution they don't like, so it's important they get a say in deciding which of the options is the lesser evil.

If RARA can host an airshow (without racing) and turn a profit, then I find that very interesting. I don't know what to make of that yet so....to be continued....

[Guest]

Re: What If....2021

I'm saying present the choice to the class presidents. They are the ones that can complain or abstain if RARA forces a solution they don't like, so it's important they get a say in deciding which of the options is the lesser evil.

If RARA can host an airshow (without racing) and turn a profit, then I find that very interesting. I don't know what to make of that yet so....to be continued....

I have little doubt that whatever Reno decides to do in 2021 and beyond that materially affects the racing component, the class presidents will be involved. Again, no direct insight or say...just my opinion.

Whether or not Reno could turn a profit without racing is an unknown. As you've stated, much of it will depend on messaging to the classes, fans, and sponsors.

Yep...TBC...

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: What If....2021

Was it Thorton Audraine (sp?) who has been quoted as once saying "These guys would race for a bucket of s#it if we made them bring the bucket...

Sorry, just had to throw that in for contrast...

[Guest]

Re: What If....2021

Was it Thorton Audraine (sp?) who has been quoted as once saying "These guys would race for a bucket of s#it if we made them bring the bucket...

Sorry, just had to throw that in for contrast...

Great quote! And very likely true for a fair number of racers in all classes!

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: What If....2021

Great quote! And very likely true for a fair number of racers in all classes!

ANNNND that is one of the reasons I truly love this sport! The one pilot I knew best and spent the most time with would have to be one of the best race pilots EVER... Lyle Shelton... I doubt very seriously he ever made $.02 racing the Rare Bear... I would bet money on it!

[Big_Jim]

Re: What If....2021

Was it Thorton Audraine (sp?) who has been quoted as once saying "These guys would race for a bucket of s#it if we made them bring the bucket...

Sorry, just had to throw that in for contrast...

That was actually Jerry Duty...a quote directly to Lyle Shelton and Bob Love in the 1973/74 off-season during the PRPA negotiations with RARA. Lyle and Bob threatened to have the unlimiteds boycott, and that was Jerry Duty's reply.

[Guest]

Re: What If....2021

That was actually Jerry Duty...a quote directly to Lyle Shelton and Bob Love in the 1973/74 off-season during the PRPA negotiations with RARA. Lyle and Bob threatened to have the unlimiteds boycott, and that was Jerry Duty's reply.

Sport filled with colorful characters!

Always wondered exactly how much leverage RARA and the Classes have on each other WRT KRTS being essentially the only sandbox around...

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: What If....2021

That was actually Jerry Duty...a quote directly to Lyle Shelton and Bob Love in the 1973/74 off-season during the PRPA negotiations with RARA. Lyle and Bob threatened to have the unlimiteds boycott, and that was Jerry Duty's reply.

Thanks for clarification Jim... I'd still wager, even then, Lyle and the rest could only hope to defray the costs to race by purse and sponsorship..

There certainly was no great wealth of sponsor $$ knocking on the door when I was involved with Lyle.. The fan sponsorship thing we did back then was only partially successful in getting it done...

I also would be remiss if I didn't mention the dedication and absolute HEART of the teams! Sure was no money going crew way with Lyle's efforts in the final effort before selling the racer. Most of the guys on the team were based in Reno working for airlines... Crew chief Stacy Thomas had to fly in non-rev to get there LOL

Again, that's a lot of what appeals to me about this particular sport... these people just want to race!