Race Class Registration Update

[Guest]

As of today, here's the breakdown of the number of registered racers per class:

Biplane: 19
F1: 16
T6: 16
Sport: 36
STOL: 25
Jets: 18
UNL: 16

I have no idea who has registered in each class, just the totals.

Now, if we can just catch a break with the weather/fires. More than anything for 2021, that is what concerns me most. It wreaks havoc on schedule Mon-Wed as BLM Fire Base Op's at KRTS are priority traffic which requires us to suspend all action on the race course (place racers in the Hold, delay taxiing, etc.) while we launch the bombers. If the fire is close to KRTS, the turn times can be so short that it makes it very challenging to get folks qualified.

And once the BLM Ops have moved out of KRTS (contractually obligated to reposition after Wed noon of Race Week), the issue becomes visibility.

Keep you finger crossed the weather and fire gods give us a break...

[PowerByPackard]

Re: Race Class Registration Update

That looks pretty darn good! We'll deal with the weather when we get there. I have a good lucky feeling about this year!!!

[GRNDP51]

Re: Race Class Registration Update

As of today, here's the breakdown of the number of registered racers per class:

Biplane: 19
F1: 16
T6: 16
Sport: 36
STOL: 25
Jets: 18
UNL: 16

I have no idea who has registered in each class, just the totals.

Now, if we can just catch a break with the weather/fires. More than anything for 2021, that is what concerns me most. It wreaks havoc on schedule Mon-Wed as BLM Fire Base Op's at KRTS are priority traffic which requires us to suspend all action on the race course (place racers in the Hold, delay taxiing, etc.) while we launch the bombers. If the fire is close to KRTS, the turn times can be so short that it makes it very challenging to get folks qualified.

And once the BLM Ops have moved out of KRTS (contractually obligated to reposition after Wed noon of Race Week), the issue becomes visibility.

Keep you finger crossed the weather and fire gods give us a break...

Thanks for the update Owen, so far great numbers!!! 16 Unlimited is nice! F1 seems a little light for all of the hype and rookies lately, I assume we will get some more. Impressive numbers from the rest of the classes too!

[Guest]

Re: Race Class Registration Update

Thanks for the update Owen, so far great numbers!!! 16 Unlimited is nice! F1 seems a little light for all of the hype and rookies lately, I assume we will get some more. Impressive numbers from the rest of the classes too!

One factor that hopefully will no longer be an issue is those racers who live in Canada are currently prohibited from crossing the border. I believe that will be resolved before too long.

I am very optimistic about 2021...keep the faith!

[Desertdawg]

Re: Race Class Registration Update

Thanks for posting this and keeping AAFO in the know.

[CubersWrist]

Re: Race Class Registration Update

Assuming the classes with 16 and 18 racers stay the same how will the heats break down?

I know IF1 has run with place holders before to deal with a partial heat.

[GRNDP51]

Re: Race Class Registration Update

Assuming the classes with 16 and 18 racers stay the same how will the heats break down?

I know IF1 has run with place holders before to deal with a partial heat.

I would think since BIP ran 18 last year with only 2 heats then F1 can too if they stay below 18 (even though the rule book says max BIP can run is 8, they ran 9 last year). T-6 has always been 3 heats because of the start, so I would think that'll remain as is.

Owen, if there is any way to get some time back, would limiting BIP and F1 to only 2 heats help? From BIP's entries this year you may need a Bronze, and considering most of the fans aren't even at Stead when these are running it seems a little excessive (nothing against ANYONE that races, just a point). This would create that competitive scene for the slower guys to work on getting in the Top 18 like you've discussed here before.

F1: Top 18 (2 heats)
BIP: Top 18 (2 heats)
T-6 Top 21 (3 heats)
Jet: Top 24 (3 heats)
UNL: Top 27 (3 heats) 18 or below = 2 heats
Sport: Top 36 (4 heats)

[Guest]

Re: Race Class Registration Update

Not sure how they'd break down, but yes it would help.

I've been a proponent of reducing the total number of heats across the board. That's no secret to anyone on this forum, nor to RARA. The event is simply too long and drawn out. Hard core fans love it and I completely understand that...110%. But those folks are not who RARA needs to draw. Again, just one simple man's opinion. And yeah...I know...I'm the Performer Boss so "...OF COURSE he wants more airshow!" Yes, but not for those reasons, as I've stated innumerable times here and to the Board.

Reno has a "good problem" that many shows would like to have. Too many acts (racing and performers) and too little time.

I don't wish to be the "I know something you don't know" guy (not my style) but suffice to say we've been approached by more than one high-profile military act recently, seeking to perform at Reno in 2021. We simply do not have the time, as currently configured. Unless and until changes and concessions are made (for example, I've argued that we start at 0730, not 0800) and there is a reconfiguration of the heat racing from Wed thru Sat, that will continue to be the case.

The airshow component takes approximately 3:00 hours out of a 9:30 day at Reno. Should a more equitable balance be drawn? One could make a pretty strong argument along those lines. From both an entertainment and financial point of view.

This is not to say RARA has rejected my suggestions. They haven't. But one must understand that RARA is much like the proverbial aircraft carrier...it takes a while to turn that thing around! Not unlike any other organization that's been around for half a century or more.

[GRNDP51]

Re: Race Class Registration Update

I personally don?t think Reno needs anymore than the Thunderbirds and F-35 in a single year. Would another demo team sway anyone to come more than they want to already? Probably unlikely. And if it would change things, why do we need civilian performers to take up time? I help with Thunder Over Michigan planning and they don?t have ONE civilian performer planned this year. It?s stacked and overflowing with military and warbirds and that?s it, and they?re going to sell out of insanely overpriced tickets too.

Cut the civilian stuff, cut the number of heats to nourish stiffer competition, start at 7:30.

[Leo]

Re: Race Class Registration Update

I am usually either in the pits or ramp sitting. Most people that pony up the bread for a pit pass, while not all hard core fans, have an interest in the planes. They are the ones crowding the barricades during the races and wandering around during the show portions. But sit on the ramp and listen to where the ooohs and aaahs are during the day and you see that the show is a big draw for the casual visitor. Especially the big loud jets. The hard core fans will show up if one racer is on the course, rain, shine, wind, snow. I've done them all. But we are a small group (relatively) and the masses they need out there to support this thing want flash and noise. Most of them don't know the difference between an F-16 and a P-51 but they know what they like and RARA has to cater to them to survive. It is an expensive undertaking to drag the tribe out there for the day and they expect to be entertained or they will not be back.
Would I like more racing and less show, sure, but I am a minority in the bigger picture of the event so I take what I get from it. If I have to see a few more flip-flops or see yet another F-18 show then so be it if it keeps the event viable.
Just my $0.02, and probably not worth even that.

[Guest]

Re: Race Class Registration Update

I personally don?t think Reno needs anymore than the Thunderbirds and F-35 in a single year. Would another demo team sway anyone to come more than they want to already? Probably unlikely. And if it would change things, why do we need civilian performers to take up time? I help with Thunder Over Michigan planning and they don?t have ONE civilian performer planned this year. It?s stacked and overflowing with military and warbirds and that?s it, and they?re going to sell out of insanely overpriced tickets too.

Cut the civilian stuff, cut the number of heats to nourish stiffer competition, start at 7:30.

ToM is a unique cat. Two shows a day and a drive in only event. It's like the old drive in movies...flat rate per car-load. In this case $185. So, if you bring 5 people that's $37/pp. An average ticket price for a show featuring military jet demo's. Though I have to say each show is only going to run about 2.5 hours (about 25% of Reno's total time and shorter than just our Performer portion alone), if what is on their website holds true, so there is that.

While were on the sujbect of tickets: one thing perhaps someone can help me with. Why are Reno's GA tickets and Reserved tickets the same price? I'm no ticketing guru that doesn't seem to make sense.

Can't say I agree RE: the civilian acts. Do we want three red biplane flip-floppers...no. But there is entertainment value in the uniqueness of the civilian stuff. There can be a happy medium. I agree that a 730 start and fewer heats would go a long way in getting this event tightened up...alot.

A simple question: Does Reno benefit from staging 61 racing events over 4.5 days? Is there an ROI there sufficient to sustain that model? I don't know the answer and I don't know if it can even be quantified. But it's worth asking.

[GRNDP51]

Re: Race Class Registration Update

ToM is a unique cat. Two shows a day and a drive in only event. It's like the old drive in movies...flat rate per car-load. In this case $185. So, if you bring 5 people that's $37/pp. An average ticket price for a show featuring military jet demo's. Though I have to say each show is only going to run about 2.5 hours (about 25% of Reno's total time and shorter than just our Performer portion alone), if what is on their website holds true, so there is that.

While were on the sujbect of tickets: one thing perhaps someone can help me with. Why are Reno's GA tickets and Reserved tickets the same price? I'm no ticketing guru that doesn't seem to make sense.

Can't say I agree RE: the civilian acts. Do we want three red biplane flip-floppers...no. But there is entertainment value in the uniqueness of the civilian stuff. There can be a happy medium. I agree that a 730 start and fewer heats would go a long way in getting this event tightened up...alot.

A simple question: Does Reno benefit from staging 61 racing events over 4.5 days? Is there an ROI there sufficient to sustain that model? I don't know the answer and I don't know if it can even be quantified. But it's worth asking.

ToM is a different animal for sure. Just pointing out that from their POV they don?t need civilian acts to make a successful show, and I?m not sure if Reno does either.

Reno ticket prices have never made sense to me. Overall they?re too cheap compared to other events that offer less.

I?m on the fence about how the racing is structured. For me personally, I look forward to arrivals starting Thursday/Friday, practice starting on Sunday and qualifying Monday - Wednesday. I love that Reno is drawn out so it doesn?t just come and go once a year like regular airshows do. You get to enjoy it for 10 whole days and that?s unlike anything else really, even longer than OSH.

[Guest]

Re: Race Class Registration Update

I am usually either in the pits or ramp sitting. Most people that pony up the bread for a pit pass, while not all hard core fans, have an interest in the planes. They are the ones crowding the barricades during the races and wandering around during the show portions. But sit on the ramp and listen to where the ooohs and aaahs are during the day and you see that the show is a big draw for the casual visitor. Especially the big loud jets. The hard core fans will show up if one racer is on the course, rain, shine, wind, snow. I've done them all. But we are a small group (relatively) and the masses they need out there to support this thing want flash and noise. Most of them don't know the difference between an F-16 and a P-51 but they know what they like and RARA has to cater to them to survive. It is an expensive undertaking to drag the tribe out there for the day and they expect to be entertained or they will not be back.
Would I like more racing and less show, sure, but I am a minority in the bigger picture of the event so I take what I get from it. If I have to see a few more flip-flops or see yet another F-18 show then so be it if it keeps the event viable.
Just my $0.02, and probably not worth even that.

Thanks, Leo. Always good feedback and frankly, you hit the nail on the head. There is a mentality (both fan based and within the organization) that says, "Hey. Are we air racing or an air show?" There in lies the problem.

Like it or not, we're both. It's sort of like siblings fighting over the last piece of cake. Now I know how I used to solve that problem with my kids. "OK, Megan you get to split the last piece so you and your sister can share. And Erin, you get to choose which piece." Yeah, that piece was split right down the middle.

Ask yourself...how long would Reno survive without the airshow component? A generation or so ago that answer would likely be different. But these are different times which require different solutions.

RARA doesn't need to sell air racing to air racing fans. They need to sell the entire event to the multitudes of people who aren't air racing or airshow fans. The marketplace isn't the Leo's of the world (no offense, my friend!). And Leo's is also correct. For every air race die hard who uses the airshow timeframes to "drain and fill", there are (or should be) many more than that who want to enjoy all of it.

I've heard from several folks (on here and elsewhere) that the days are just too damn long. Not only, as Leo points out, does it take a fairly sizeable financial commitment to attend with a family (or even just a group of friends and buddies), it's also asking alot to park the Chevy at 0900 and not see it again until 1800. And if you're dragging your 4 year old and 6 year old along, well...God bless you! We have to tighten this up and enhance the entertainment value.

Reno is unique and it's an immense challenge to balance racing and airshow. Long ago, it was good ol' boy racing...and it was good! Times change. Reno is in the entertainment business now. And the sooner it becomes more about entertainment the sooner the ink goes from red to black...and the longer the racing side of the house gets to play in this sandbox.

As Dennis Miller says, "That's just my opinion. I could be wrong."

OK...soap box back under the desk.

[Bigger Al]

Re: Race Class Registration Update

Re: airshow performers at the Reno Air Races: One thing to consider is this: The California Capital Airshow is usually run right around the time that Reno is run. This year it takes place on the weekend following the air races. This is kind of a pickle, as families from Northern California get two fantastic events back-to-back, but most can only afford to go to one. Reno is going to have to try to compete with that air show for butts in seats, which is the name of the game as far as growing the event goes. Military teams and demos are crowd pleasers, no two ways about it. The purpose of Reno is air racing, but that is not going to draw the uninitiated by itself. I remember the airshow acts that appeared at Reno when I was a kid in the 70's, and they were a huge part of what made the event special and memorable for me. The needs to be the case for the folks who show up now. We're a small group of people on the internet who by-and-large want the air races to be around for a while, and expanding the airshow aspect of the event stands a good chance of drawing in new blood, like it or not.

[N22252]

Re: Race Class Registration Update

ToM is a unique cat. Two shows a day and a drive in only event. It's like the old drive in movies...flat rate per car-load. In this case $185. So, if you bring 5 people that's $37/pp. An average ticket price for a show featuring military jet demo's. Though I have to say each show is only going to run about 2.5 hours (about 25% of Reno's total time and shorter than just our Performer portion alone), if what is on their website holds true, so there is that.

While were on the sujbect of tickets: one thing perhaps someone can help me with. Why are Reno's GA tickets and Reserved tickets the same price? I'm no ticketing guru that doesn't seem to make sense.

Can't say I agree RE: the civilian acts. Do we want three red biplane flip-floppers...no. But there is entertainment value in the uniqueness of the civilian stuff. There can be a happy medium. I agree that a 730 start and fewer heats would go a long way in getting this event tightened up...alot.

A simple question: Does Reno benefit from staging 61 racing events over 4.5 days? Is there an ROI there sufficient to sustain that model? I don't know the answer and I don't know if it can even be quantified. But it's worth asking.

You guys just bummed me out with this update on Thunder Over Michigan... I've taken my Dad and sometimes my wife to that show most years for the last 20 and we've been always been impressed by the way one can get "up close and personal" with dozens of warbirds and with the ground battle re-enactors. I cannot imagine sitting in or standing next to my car with the airplanes in the distance would be the same!!!

There's a lot of memories there of being under the wingtip of the Avro Lancaster as it was marshalled into its parking space, or watching an original BF-109 start up from 50 feet away, or walking around under the wing of the DC-7 dodging the oil drips, or watching Cloud Dancer, Riff Raff, and the Super Corsair demonstrate Reno Racing in the Midwest. I go to airshows for experiences like that! I can watch the Blue Angles in my car if I want... on YouTube!