Just another question? More like facebook?

[AAFO_WSagar]

Since we've lost, literally, thousands of members to facebook, should I be thinking about making the site more like FB?

More open... automatic thread update notifications more in your face ads? Less or no moderation... public allowd to comment on your posts.. cookies that you accept that follow you wherever you visit that shape the ads that are presented to you?

Automatic algorithmic choices of what you see next when you visit here?

Works for them..

Whadaya' think?

[Colbourne]

Re: Just another question? More like facebook?

Are the members lost ? Or do they have multiple accounts on here and Facebook ?

If you can work out what you can provide better than Facebook, that is the way to go.

[BellCobraIV]

Re: Just another question? More like facebook?

Since we've lost, literally, thousands of members to facebook, should I be thinking about making the site more like FB?

More open... automatic thread update notifications more in your face ads? Less or no moderation... public allowd to comment on your posts.. cookies that you accept that follow you wherever you visit that shape the ads that are presented to you?

Automatic algorithmic choices of what you see next when you visit here?

Works for them..

Whadaya' think?

Wayne,
Don't start flock shooting, ride it out. If you start doing all that you'll lose some of us.

[RAD2LTR]

Re: Just another question? More like facebook?

I don't know that we need to change things all that much. The format works. What we need are some new members with new content, old members who don't post anymore to bring in some new content, and for the new members to feel welcome. People left due to people feeling picked on, (It happens, sometimes intentionally, sometimes not.), the feeling they were being censored, and finally, a lack of new content.

We have many people who have amazing stories they could share of the days of old. Stuff some of us were too young to remember, or flat out weren't even aware of. I had a great conversation with Sharon Sandberg in the Tsunami tent about what was going on in the late 80s and early 90s. (Drug running, gun running, and other illegal dealings.) I knew about the drugs, but had no clue about gun running and what have you. Its this sort of thing that we need to hear about. Nope its not glamorous, but without the illegal stuff, much of the legal stuff would have never happened. No, not everyone was doing it, but everyone knew who was and wasn't. (Nothing to see here... move along, move along.) Its stories like this that gives color and contrast to the known history. I always get excited to read what John Slack posts, or the Haskins, or anyone else who was there. We need to find a way for these people to share their knowledge.

Perhaps in the off season we need to be cool with non racing content. I asked Elliot Seguin to come back and post some of his stuff since he has a good amount of content year round. He had a couple really cool images pulled from the in cockpit gopro of Sherm flying Argonaut. I'm sure he's got some good video from his sport races as well.

It would be great to get some IF1 and Biplane pilots in here and talking. As much as we all love the Unlimiteds and Sport, we need to support the little guys as well. There is some really great racing going on in those classes as well.

We need the advantages of a searchable forum to be obvious. That is something that FB cannot touch. We also don't need the riffraff that FB empowers. Lastly, check your politics at the door. Who you voted for is irrelevant here. That is not what this place is for. As a moderator, if I see politics or political chatter invading a thread, I will delete the post.

Lets restore the site to what it was. Its not broken, just a little dusty and in need of a tune up.

Will

[BellCobraIV]

Re: Just another question? More like facebook?

I don't know that we need to change things all that much. The format works. What we need are some new members with new content, old members who don't post anymore to bring in some new content, and for the new members to feel welcome. People left due to people feeling picked on, (It happens, sometimes intentionally, sometimes not.), the feeling they were being censored, and finally, a lack of new content.

We have many people who have amazing stories they could share of the days of old. Stuff some of us were too young to remember, or flat out weren't even aware of. I had a great conversation with Sharon Sandberg in the Tsunami tent about what was going on in the late 80s and early 90s. (Drug running, gun running, and other illegal dealings.) I knew about the drugs, but had no clue about gun running and what have you. Its this sort of thing that we need to hear about. Nope its not glamorous, but without the illegal stuff, much of the legal stuff would have never happened. No, not everyone was doing it, but everyone knew who was and wasn't. (Nothing to see here... move along, move along.) Its stories like this that gives color and contrast to the known history. I always get excited to read what John Slack posts, or the Haskins, or anyone else who was there. We need to find a way for these people to share their knowledge.

Perhaps in the off season we need to be cool with non racing content. I asked Elliot Seguin to come back and post some of his stuff since he has a good amount of content year round. He had a couple really cool images pulled from the in cockpit gopro of Sherm flying Argonaut. I'm sure he's got some good video from his sport races as well.

It would be great to get some IF1 and Biplane pilots in here and talking. As much as we all love the Unlimiteds and Sport, we need to support the little guys as well. There is some really great racing going on in those classes as well.

We need the advantages of a searchable forum to be obvious. That is something that FB cannot touch. We also don't need the riffraff that FB empowers. Lastly, check your politics at the door. Who you voted for is irrelevant here. That is not what this place is for. As a moderator, if I see politics or political chatter invading a thread, I will delete the post.

Lets restore the site to what it was. Its not broken, just a little dusty and in need of a tune up.

Will

"We need the advantages of a searchable forum to be obvious. That is something that FB cannot touch. We also don't need the riffraff that FB empowers. Lastly, check your politics at the door. Who you voted for is irrelevant here. That is not what this place is for. As a moderator, if I see politics or political chatter invading a thread, I will delete the post."

Absofreakinlutely agree 100%! I have a very good friend in my automotive world that is as politically polar opposite to me as possible. We have great times together, our families are great together. I respect that he has the right to disagree with me and I have the right to disagree with him, however the common interests that we share don't get twisted in the middle.

A searchable forum is important for researching the past. I'm having a great time with Brad and Neal and others regarding the "Before it was Rare Bear" thread. Because of that thread I'm having to reach out to people that I have not talked to in years.

[marada mx3]

Re: Just another question? More like facebook?

Just last night I was trying to remember the name of a certain yellow and blue Unlimited that I could not remember for the life of me (one of the planes responsible for dragging me into this great sport btw). The only source I could think of to search was the AAFO forums. After a couple of very broad searches, Miss Merced popped up and voila! I don't think any other site would have given me results. Simply invaluable. And reading some of the archives in my search results uncovered some great stories and conversations. Wouldn't want to lose this resource.
Thanks again Wayne!

[wadeh]

Re: Just another question? More like facebook?

Please don't make any major changes. This site is a pure treasure.

Speaking candidly, I think that there are some thing that could be tweaked.

For example, if you just visit http://aafo.com, there is very little there to associate the site with the Reno Air Races. It's mentioned in the title of the browser tab, but not prominently on the page. Worse, the top item in the page is entitled "Reno Air Races 2019", and there are lots of other items that mention 2010 and 2011. That gives the impression that the site is not current.

If you get past the outdated home page, you have to know to go to "Message Board" to find the Reno Air Racing forum. Whatever you do, don't click the "Air Racing" topic in the banner at the top. If you do, you will be transported back to 2003, which reinforces the idea that the content here is stale.

What I think might help is to have a landing page specifically dedicated to current air racing content and this forum. The page should be rich in images and should have a friendly description of the purpose and intent of the forums, as well as suggestions as to what is, and is not, allowed.

As I mentioned back in September, it might be useful to have a QR code that links to the above landing page so that people just need to point their phone camera at it to get here.

Oh, and I totally agree that moderation should keep the subjects directly on air racing.

For what it's worth, I had fun posting from Reno this year (although I think that some of my comments carried farther than I expected). I hope to get there earlier next year to watch qualifying and get around a bit more to try and do my part to get some content.

Just my two cents.

[CubersWrist]

Re: Just another question? More like facebook?

Wayne, I can't believe I'm going to defend Facebook but as the token millennial here goes...
Facebook (and websites like it) are the evolution of forums. It is not an accident that it is popular. A big part of Fb's success is how convenient it is. It also groups everything into one place so you don't have to make 10 different accounts and passwords for 10 different forums.

Creating an AAFO 'Fb group' would maintain almost all the functionality of the current website. The photo albums are easier to manage and search. It's easier for friends to see it and it's easier to reach and bring in new fans. It doesn't cost any money. And groups do have search functionality and the instant messaging built in.

The only real issue with fb is the issues of privacy and censorship and that really only comes up with politics and covid which really don't get discussed here. As for all the talk about rude people on fb, I'm going to say people have been rude to me here too, so again AAFO is no innocent angel. But with that being the case, it is easy to set up moderators and establish group rules to limit that kind of behavior.

So when it comes to air racing, fb is not some big bad evil corporation. It's like youtube, just another tool to spread the passion.

\\End defense of facebook's existence


...okay with that out of the way, the forum could still continue and thrive in parallel with facebook. But the forum must present a strong and compelling reason to make a new account. That's accomplished by having content, and there must be people who want to discuss the content with each other.

And while I believe there is plenty of potential air racing content out there (I try to create and publish some of it). Most people here are only interested in discussing unlimiteds, which unfortunately happens to be the class with the least content.

So there's two obvious solutions. Find a way to generate more content for the unlimiteds (past or present). The interview with Doc is a great example, and there are enough former pilots alive that similar model could be repeated. I suggested race reviews going back as far as people can remember.

The other option is people need to be interested in the other classes and pilots.

[Guest]

Re: Just another question? More like facebook?

What follows is just one man's opinion...nothing more, nothing less. An observation from someone who (a) has not had a presence on FB for many years for a wide variety of reasons and (b) values this forum for its insight, cotent, contributors, and 98.9% avoidance of anything related to politics (I'll plead guilty to a missive or two along those lines).

I'd echo some of the remarks below re: how AAFO and FB can coexist. I don't see this situation as an "either/or." That said (and I'm fully aware that what I'm about to say requires some considerable effort and $$$), if we're to attract new folks and get the old guard back, I feel the forum needs a facelift and a new coat of paint.

Most all of the content leads on the Home Page are very dated. The pages links across the top take you to pages that don't seem to have been updated for years, in some cases decades.

In all honesty, I'd wager that the vast majority of folks on AAFO go directly to the Message Board without passing "Go" or collecting a dime. I think an argument could be made that AAFO should become an air race only forum/message board with archival links for each class. There are innumerable other sites out in the ethernet that cater to all manner of aviation-related topics and AAFO simply cannot keep pace with those. It's akin to McDonalds selling McWraps...remember those? Yeah, me either. It's simply NOT what they do best. Which is why places like In 'n Out Burgers do so well. They do one thing...make burgers...that's it. And they do it well.

OK...now for the reality check. AAFO is a one-man operation. I can only imagine the directions Wayne's is being pulled in to keep this sand box full of sand. No easy task under ANY circumstances, let alone when spending enormous amounts of energy battling health issues. Frankly, it's a wonder we're all still able to post here.

Wayne, a debt of gratitude beyond measure young man!

So, a proposal. And this is classic spit-balling if there every was such a thing.

A fund-raiser from us AAFO'ers that bolsters an effort to enlist an intern or two from a local college or tech school to help Wayne revamp and refresh this forum. I am by no means an SME on such things...far from it. Hell, I have trouble enough posting the proper size image on here! But it seems to me it may be worth investigating and potentially investing in...

OK, soap box back under the desk.

Wayne, cannot thank you enough for your efforts over the years to keep this thing afloat. Hats off..crisp salute...Hip, Hip, Hooray!

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Just another question? More like facebook?

What you could not see was my tongue in cheek whilst writing the post. For the same reasons I don't frequent FB much (only to check in on people I miss seeing, family members and such) I'm not intending to make this place more like FB.

For one, as of right now, you don't have to be a member to read and enjoy most of the benefits of being a member, basically, you just can't post, if I remember correctly.

As of about 5 minutes ago these were the current stats

Threads: 11,661
Posts: 123,595
There are currently 45 users online. 3 members and 42 guests

Most users ever online was 1,735, 05-14-2021 at 11:29 PM.

AAFO_WSagar*, glider69, wingman

These are the overall stats for members and content

Threads 13,052 Posts 131,267 Members 3,719
Welcome to our newest member, spins_105

Blogs 4 Entries 5 Last 24 Hours 0
Latest Blog Entry, More racing! ! by flyboy83

This one is amazing, stats for the random shot of the day part 1

Replies: 820
Views: 599,264

And for part 2

Replies: 387
Views: 131,824

Those are not really bad numbers we might be doing "better" than I'm thinking?? I totally site needs cleanup, there's a bunch of sub forums that really are more of a distraction than a benefit.. There are features that are apparently too hard to get to and use such as the gallery and blog sections.. I believe just about the only entry in the blogs is from Thom trying to drag attention to his projects..

That's what we're here for. We essentially offer everything that Facebook does only in a much MUCH more private way! We don't encourage or even want the personal details that so many FB folks seem to need to share.. In many cases, they must feel like they're speaking with their best, closest friend and they just spew their deepest thoughts. amazing really

For sure, I do too much of that here myself!!!!

It's because I do feel close to most of you, I've met many of you, many were with me in '04 when I had cancer.. this place was VERY important to me during that period!

Needs a cleanup, needs features already here made easier to use.. Wayne needs to try harder to regain memory of just how to accomplish that! I think/hope it will come back but I'm trying to get some folks in line to take over when I can no longer do it.

[wadeh]

Re: Just another question? More like facebook?

The only real issue with fb is the issues of privacy and censorship and that really only comes up with politics and covid which really don't get discussed here.

I disagree with this, 100%

My main hobby is astrophotography.

The local group of astrophotographers with whom I am most active is represented by a Facebook group. It is the only reason that I have a Facebook account at all, and I periodically pester the owner of the group to find somewhere else to host it.

Facebook is an awful substitute for a forum. Here is a very simple exercise: Log into a Facebook group and configure it to show you only unread posts. Failing that (which you will), take a look at the posts it's shoveling at you and separate the ads from the content. Now scroll down and try to find the last thread with unread posts since your last visit.

These are the very most basic things you would expect from a forum reader - and Facebook fails utterly.

Beyond that, Facebook has no problem with radically changing their UI at the drop of a hat - and they do not care what you think about it. They had a recent change to the groups UI where they allowed people to use the old UI for a while. Eventually, they dropped the ability to use the old UI, even though there were huge numbers of complaints about the new UI, and how they simply dropped features that we use every day.

I am also the sound engineer for our church. Due to the impacts of Covid, we've been streaming our Sunday service for a little over a year now. For various reasons, we are using Facebook as the host for our video streams. Our video guy painstakingly created an operations manual for people who help out in the media booth. A week or so ago, I understand that Facebook made some UI changes that largely invalidate that work. Gee, thanks.

Yeah, no. I have no desire at all to have any more Facebook in my life.