Why Are There No Rare Bear Clones?

[knot4u]

Why didn't anyone follow Lyle down that road? There were a couple of Sea Furies, Critical Mass and 232, that used some of the knowledge gained from the Rare Bear. But there's never been a clone. There's entire threads here about clone Mustangs but the Rare Bear has no imitators. Why?

[ZacYates]

Re: Why Are There No Rare Bear Clones?

Perhaps - no evidence at hand to back it up - but perhaps F8Fs are harder to come by?

[wingman]

Re: Why Are There No Rare Bear Clones?

That's a good question, particularly for the 1975 to 1986 period, before Dwight changed the Mustang game. Until Dreadnaught there was not an airplane out there that could run with the Bear when the Bear was running decently. Bearcats were pretty rare, which is a factor. More than that there was the crew Lyle put together. It would have been very hard to duplicate that bunch.

Like I said -- a good question...

Neal

[wingman]

Re: Why Are There No Rare Bear Clones?

Perhaps - no evidence at hand to back it up - but perhaps F8Fs are harder to come by?

There were actually a number of Bearcats changing hands through the 1970s, at least. There were a bunch being crashed and destroyed, too. If I recall correctly they were still occasionally available for $75,000 or so when John Herlihy (sp?) sold his black one about 1978 or so. So rarity of airframes was a factor but they did come aound occasionally.

Neal

[RAD2LTR]

Re: Why Are There No Rare Bear Clones?

My guess is that its because the wing spars are swiss cheese and really can't handle the loads. They were prone to cracking due to the number of rivet holes used to attach them, and the fix was to drill even more holes in it to attach the caps. If I'm not mistaken, the USN limited the Bearcat to +/-2G and fair weather flying only. That is why they had such a short lifespan in the USN, but were sold to allies who flew them (and had wing spar failures.)


It wasn't till recently that a better design was developed. I can't say for sure, but I'd guess this is one of the reasons Rare Bear went to Texas as they are the only ones to have built a Bearcat with the new setup.

Will

[wingman]

Re: Why Are There No Rare Bear Clones?

My guess is that its because the wing spars are swiss cheese and really can't handle the loads. They were prone to cracking due to the number of rivet holes used to attach them, and the fix was to drill even more holes in it to attach the caps. If I'm not mistaken, the USN limited the Bearcat to +/-2G and fair weather flying only. That is why they had such a short lifespan in the USN, but were sold to allies who flew them (and had wing spar failures.)


It wasn't till recently that a better design was developed. I can't say for sure, but I'd guess this is one of the reasons Rare Bear went to Texas as they are the only ones to have built a Bearcat with the new setup.

Will

How well was this known in the 1970s? I've read a bit about Bill Fornoff,s wing failure back then and all discussion seemed to revolve around G cycles on that airframe -- I don't remeber much discussion of weak spars. That said, I do know that most Bearcats did have that strengthening strip on the bottom of the wing.

Neal

[Big_Jim]

Re: Why Are There No Rare Bear Clones?

For many years in the late '70's and early '80's, there was the rumored Dusty Dowd Bearcat racer--an ex-wind machine with Kaman helicopters. Was supposed to have been modified for racing. But never turned up.

[Bigfoot]

Re: Why Are There No Rare Bear Clones?

The strengthening wing strip was removed early on from Rare Bear (as in...from the beginning)

Marc Weir
aka BigFoot

[wingman]

Re: Why Are There No Rare Bear Clones?

...and the Bear certainly endured some G forces over the years.

Neal

[RAD2LTR]

Re: Why Are There No Rare Bear Clones?

For many years in the late '70's and early '80's, there was the rumored Dusty Dowd Bearcat racer--an ex-wind machine with Kaman helicopters. Was supposed to have been modified for racing. But never turned up.

It never did get built, and eventually, Dusty sold the project. Years later, it was restored into a beautiful stock bearcat. Perhaps he will chime in.

Will

[SpinB]

Re: Why Are There No Rare Bear Clones?

Why didn't anyone follow Lyle down that road? There were a couple of Sea Furies, Critical Mass and 232, that used some of the knowledge gained from the Rare Bear. But there's never been a clone. There's entire threads here about clone Mustangs but the Rare Bear has no imitators. Why?

It?s because THAT kind of lightning strikes ONLY once!!

[V1670]

Re: Why Are There No Rare Bear Clones?

just WHAT is a clone? Reason I ask is; the "closest" I've seen to a "clone" is the Dago Red/Strega/Voodoo bunch (as discussed in another thread here), but even THESE are unique unto themselves. Why didn't someone clone Conquest 1?
And, in the beginning, I think Lyle (and his crew) set out to clone Conquest 1...but then had BETTER ideas.
And therein lies the foundation of the sport: TO GO FASTER. That's one aspect that has ALWAYS interested my in this sport: the better ideas and the innovation. Red Baron. Tsunami, Stilleto, Galloping Ghost, Rare Bear, Dreadnought. These guys are always thinking outside the box.

[BellCobraIV]

Re: Why Are There No Rare Bear Clones?

just WHAT is a clone? Reason I ask is; the "closest" I've seen to a "clone" is the Dago Red/Strega/Voodoo bunch (as discussed in another thread here), but even THESE are unique unto themselves. Why didn't someone clone Conquest 1?
And, in the beginning, I think Lyle (and his crew) set out to clone Conquest 1...but then had BETTER ideas.
And therein lies the foundation of the sport: TO GO FASTER. That's one aspect that has ALWAYS interested my in this sport: the better ideas and the innovation. Red Baron. Tsunami, Stilleto, Galloping Ghost, Rare Bear, Dreadnought. These guys are always thinking outside the box.

There were too many features of Conquest 1 that Lyle did NOT like to ever consider that. The Able Cat was a clean sheet of paper project, and always had clipped wings and a sliding bubble canopy from the beginning. You'll notice that the wing tip shape was unique.

John

[BellCobraIV]

Re: Why Are There No Rare Bear Clones?

It?s because THAT kind of lightning strikes ONLY once!!

Why no more? Excellent answer, THAT kind of Lightning only strikes once. Most of the fans today never had the privilege of watching the man race. They never had that ethereal feeling of watching him early in the week take a couple of laps at what for most of the field was qualifying speed but for him in his "Bear" was a quick paced reconreconnaissance of the way the course might be different due to RARA moving a pylon, or something he observed at speed the year before. Then it was time to go to work for him, he'd choose a section of the course and settle down onto his line and progressively increase the power and work on the line on the set of pylons he was not happy with, as he passed the last group of pylons he would pull up a bit and in his brain analyze what the plane was telling him. Then maybe he would settle down in the same section and do it all over. Most of the time he would then land the airplane and come in and discuss any issues the crew.

One time he asked for the clock, we hadn't polished the plane, we hadn't taped the seams! We had just prepped the beast for fast flying but NOT for qualifying! Lyle hit the course and set the course record for qualifying speed....we didn't know that he was going on the clock! But he told us afterwards "It felt real good, how was the time?" Well Lyle it was a record. He got his sly Texas boy grin on, told me to ride the brakes, and set about doing his other magic that he did so well.... while the Fastest Piston engined airplane in the World was towed back to it's pit walked through the crowd talking with fans about his flight and signing autographs.

It was NOT just a Bearcat it was the Bear that belonged to the Benevolent Dictator of RareBearLand. People who were very talented followed him and became part of the group. I have always said if you took the Beatles instruments and gave them to talented musicians...the music wouldn't be the same.

[knot4u]

Re: Why Are There No Rare Bear Clones?

Maybe there's the three Mustang clones because they all basically came out of one shop at Shafter, there might be plenty of reasons for that, but that's where they all came from. During my time working on the Bearcat I found out a few things, first of all it was just mean mean/angry towards anyone that tried to work on it (although it seemed to get less so after a while), we never had any money (I can remember not having new AN screws), and it just seemed like the Mustang guys had an easier week at Reno (we were always covered in oil and they seemed to be walking around without a spot on them). I honestly think the reason why there is no Rare Bear clone is because is it was so much harder. So many people put so much hard work into that thing for so many years for no other reason than they just liked it that it had to become a legend, Lyle was the person that had a vision (never underestimate a Texan). I wish it was still fast, kind of bums me out these days. But I remember my time with Bear fondly, as time goes on I realize I miss the people more than the airplane, although I'd still love to go visit the airplane.