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  • #16
    Re: American Spirit, Shockwave, Lear Solution, Tsunami

    Originally posted by AAFO_WSagar View Post
    That was part of the beauty of that era! Think of it.. do it!

    Tsunami, Miss Ashley II, purely ground up creations. TERRIBLE outcomes for both but it just speaks to the will to have a RENO win.

    Will Whiteside with Steadfast may well be the last guy to just bring a "stocker" soup it up a bit and race it. As much as the big boys really are the stars of the show, there used to be a significant number of entries that were a lot like the old "run what you brung" very early days.

    I don't think the costs involved with insurance and such are going to make that sort of effort very popular.

    I sure would love to see some innovative ideas in the unlimited as we know it move forward. But Like Mr. Slack has said to me, the real future of the sport lies with, the Sport class..

    .... Sorry if I've dragged this off topic at all..
    Tsunami's outcome could have been much different had the owner listened to Skip and not tried to fly the thing home himself. MAII was something that would have been difficult to avoid I think.

    As for guys bringing stockers and souping them up, what about Dusty and Full Noise? Between 2015 and 2016 Dusty found nearly 60mph qualifying speed. Race speeds, in 2015 he ran 321 for a 3rd place in silver, in 2016 he won silver at 376. Some major work went into the plane between 15 and 16. Full Noise ran 315 in the Sunday gold in 2017, and 352 in the Sunday gold in 2018. Both Dusty and Graeme have been working on their planes since they last raced, and when they do make it back, should be faster still. Dusty is looking for 400+ while running an R1830. Steadfast needed an R2000 to do that, and even then, he barely made 400.

    As far as Run What you Brung, I'd say Jeff LeVelle took that and ran with it this past year. I think there is a good chance that we will see him run faster this year.

    Looking forward, I'd say in 5 years or so, we are going to have an amazing Unlimited Gold. There is a chance that Tsunami will be ready, Shockwave might be done, and other projects that are in the works although not public yet might appear. We might see other as yet unknown projects appear as well. The Sport guys are pretty well tapped out in terms of speed, so if they want to go faster, they are either going to have to spend HUGE sums of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for a whole lot of reengineering or somehow blend the future with the past and run something with a Merlin, Griffon, R2800/3350/4360 simply to get the power they need to go 450+. Who knows, perhaps someone will buy American Sprit, and make that work because it will cost less than making a Legacy or Glasair run 450. (A strange though perhaps, but think about it.) The increase in speed of the Unlimiteds came on the backs of cleaner airframes and more powerful engines. A stock Merlin is roughly double the hp of the fastest Sport engine, but it won't move a Mustang 400+. The Sport engines are going to need insane amounts of boost, as well as more displacement to run 420, and there really isn't any viable way to get there short of engineering a whole new engine. ($$$$$$$$$$$) The airframes need to be aerodynamically perfect, and redesigned/reinforced to run that fast. Heck, the Legacy VNE is about 275 I think. They are WAY beyond that. At what point do we see wings or tails come off? I guess Sport class could embrace the Turboprop and go that route to find the power, but you still have to address the structure of the airframe. The Sport class guys aren't afraid to play with carbon fiber, so who's to say someone won't get some crazy idea like the Lear Solution, and actually build it out of carbon fiber? I think it comes down to the concept of speed costs $, how fast do you want to go? Do you invent a new engine that will produce the power, or do you buy a proven 80+ year old design, and build an aircraft around it? Either way you are looking at big $$$$$$$$. At least with the 80 year old engine, people have proven they can build a reliable one that will make the power required.

    Will

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    • #17
      Re: American Spirit, Shockwave, Lear Solution, Tsunami

      Originally posted by N22252 View Post
      Good point, Wayne. Also, in a Yak, Graeme Frew has continued this spirit up to very recent years. I can't begin to imagine what it cost to ship Full Noise from the other side of the World, but he just really wanted to race it
      To ship Full Noise, I think it was about $80K round trip. Yes Graeme still really wants to race. Heck, in 2020 they had a full blown race prepped Allison sponsored, but obviously that didn't happen. (I hope it was built by someone other than the guys who build their 2017 race engine that didn't make it to qualifying.) Graeme and the guys have not been sitting around. They have been researching and testing some interesting ideas. You can bet when they come back, they will be faster than ever.


      On the topic of Allison powered Yaks, I forgot to mention the one being built up in Redding CA. I haven't seen any updates, but I have heard they are still working on it.

      Known projects in the works, Tsunami, Shockwave, and the Redding Yak. Those are the potential fast birds. Then we have Miss Trinidad with an R2000 that should be a 400+ capable bird, as well as Olivier Langeard's former Yak, also R2000 powered. (The owner is interested in racing.) In reality, there are two if not more 500+ mph capable projects in the works. Instead of looking at it from the standpoint of "We will never see the likes of a Super Unlimited again" perhaps we should look at it as "There are projects in the works, lets be positive and see what they bring."

      Will

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: American Spirit, Shockwave, Lear Solution, Tsunami

        Originally posted by RAD2LTR View Post
        To ship Full Noise, I think it was about $80K round trip. Yes Graeme still really wants to race. Heck, in 2020 they had a full blown race prepped Allison sponsored, but obviously that didn't happen. (I hope it was built by someone other than the guys who build their 2017 race engine that didn't make it to qualifying.) Graeme and the guys have not been sitting around. They have been researching and testing some interesting ideas. You can bet when they come back, they will be faster than ever.


        On the topic of Allison powered Yaks, I forgot to mention the one being built up in Redding CA. I haven't seen any updates, but I have heard they are still working on it.

        Known projects in the works, Tsunami, Shockwave, and the Redding Yak. Those are the potential fast birds. Then we have Miss Trinidad with an R2000 that should be a 400+ capable bird, as well as Olivier Langeard's former Yak, also R2000 powered. (The owner is interested in racing.) In reality, there are two if not more 500+ mph capable projects in the works. Instead of looking at it from the standpoint of "We will never see the likes of a Super Unlimited again" perhaps we should look at it as "There are projects in the works, lets be positive and see what they bring."

        Will
        With the massive increase in shipping costs, that $80k would be closer to $250k now. If not more. We used to move freight between Japan and the US for about 6k one way. It is over 20k now.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: American Spirit, Shockwave, Lear Solution, Tsunami

          Originally posted by knot4u View Post
          Provided by Big Jim in another thread. I suspect it was a bunch of big minds sitting around with a bit of lubricant, but you never know...
          [ATTACH=CONFIG]26445[/ATTACH]
          Thanks!

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: American Spirit, Shockwave, Lear Solution, Tsunami

            Originally posted by RAD2LTR View Post
            Yes Graeme still really wants to race.
            Not to mention I believe the owners of Steadfast, now based at Omaka - the same field as Full Noise - are keen to take her back to Stead also.

            I think the future for the Unlimiteds is bright.
            Zac in NZ

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: American Spirit, Shockwave, Lear Solution, Tsunami

              This is a great thread. When people on FB say the good old days are all done never going to happen again, and even some long time insiders have told me that , I just refuse to think that. The future can?t just be shut down like that . There?s tons of possibilities and what if some guy out there we don?t know yet that is loaded like a Rod Lewis or Paul Allen decides to go racing? What if some rich fan cuts a check to Tiger and POF and brings Strega and Voodoo back ?

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: American Spirit, Shockwave, Lear Solution, Tsunami

                The one thing the unlimited class lacks that it now needs desperately is rivalries, might be the airplane, might be the pilot, could even be the crew. No one who loves racing wants to watch a bunch of airplanes fly around like a parade, there has to be a sense of uncertainty regarding who might win. Who is going to push harder than the others, will someone cut a pylon, who's willing to let it all hang out to win at all costs? These days, no one.
                Last edited by knot4u; 01-15-2022, 03:04 PM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: American Spirit, Shockwave, Lear Solution, Tsunami

                  Originally posted by knot4u View Post
                  The one thing the unlimited class lacks that it now needs desperately is rivalries, might be the airplane, might be the pilot, could even be the crew. No one who loves racing wants to watch a bunch of airplanes fly around like a parade, there has to be a sense of uncertainty regarding who might win. Who is going to push harder than the others, will someone cut a pylon, who's willing to let it all hang out to win at all costs? These days, no one.
                  You have three of them that led Sport class last year - and a few others that are working on being up in those ranks as well - and those guys may be the same ones switching over to Unlimited, Jeff already has...
                  Reno from '99 to '23

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: American Spirit, Shockwave, Lear Solution, Tsunami

                    Originally posted by GRNDP51 View Post
                    You have three of them that led Sport class last year - and a few others that are working on being up in those ranks as well - and those guys may be the same ones switching over to Unlimited, Jeff already has...
                    Jeff didn't "switch over" to unlimited. He bought a Mustang and wanted to have some fun. Sport Class is still his focus.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: American Spirit, Shockwave, Lear Solution, Tsunami

                      HI GUYS..... LONG TIME NO VOICE....I COME TO THIS SIGHT EVERY DAY, AND I MEAN EVERY DAY. I LOVE THE BANTERING WHEN IT'S DONE NICELY AND WITH DUE RESPECT. WE ALL HAVE OUR OPINIONS, AND HOPEFULLY, LOVE THE SPORT.

                      MY FIRST AIR RACE WAS IN FULTON, NY WITH MY UNCLE, BILL FALCK, IN 1958. THIS WAS AFTER THE HANGAR FIRE WHERE RIVETS WAS BURNED TO A CRISP, AND I MEAN TO A CRISP. I BUCKED RIVETS WHILE HELPING WILLIE RESTORE RIVETS WHEN I WAS 7 YRS OLD. A STORY FOR ANOTHER DAY, BUT I JUST WRITE THIS HISTORY TO SHOW HOW MANY YEARS I HAVE BEEN INVOLVED WITH AIR RACING.

                      FOR YEARS, AND I MEAN YEARS, I TRIED TO GET RENO TO DO A ROOKIE GROUND SCHOOL THAT WASN'T DURING THE SUMMER WHEN CROP DUSTERS MADE THEIR LIVING AND TOOK CARE OF THEIR FARMER'S CROPS. I WROTE LETTERS AND RECEIVED NEGATIVES UNTIL SHERM CAME UP WITH THE IDEA OF HAVING THE ROOKIE SCHOOL EARLY AND DO THE FLYING PART THE WEEKEND BEFORE THE RACING STARTED. HE DID THIS FOR ME AND TWO OTHER ROOKIES THAT SAME TIME IN THE SPRING OF 2015. I WILL ALWAYS BE GRATEFUL FOR SHERM, OUR FEARLESS LEADER, FOR ACCOMPLISHING THAT NOT SMALL FEAT, AND FOR DENNIS SANDERS WHO FLEW WITH SHERM IN DREADNAUGHT TO WATCH ME.

                      ANYWAY, AS YOU MIGHT RECALL, WE CAME TO RNO IN '15 AND LEARNED A BUNCH, TO SAY THE LEAST. I KIND OF STUMBLED MY WAY AROUND THE COURSE WITH GENERATOR PROBLEMS, RADIO PROBLEMS, AND CARBURETOR ISSUES. THANKS TO THE SANDERS CREW, CHUCK CABE, PETE LAW, AND MY CREW, WE WERE ABLE TO OVERCOME SOME THINGS AND FINISH IN FRONT OF A COUPLE MUSTANGS IN THE SILVER. WHEW........WHAT A RIDE.

                      FOR THE 2016 RACES; WELL, IF IT HADN'T BEEN FOR NELSON AND CHAD EZELL, AND JEFF ABBOTT, I WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN THERE AND MAYBE WOULD HAVE BUSTED MY GRASS ON THE WAY IF JEFF HADN'T DISCOVERED THE SUPERCHARGER IMPELLER LOOKING LIKE SOMEONE THREW ROCKS IN IT AT 25000 RPM. TOO LONG A STORY TO WRITE HERE, BUT THIS ALONG WITH SAM DAVIS LETTING ME HAVE ONE OF HIS BIG SPINNERS AND US BUILDING A GRAPHITE AFTERBODY TO MATCH THE SPINNER DOWN TO THE DIAMETER OF THE POWER CASE.......THE LITTLE YAK STARTED TO MOVE. THE SPINNER/AFTERBODY FAIRING ( MY FIRST CRACK AT GRAPHITE) PUT 20 MPH ON AND THE ADI SYSTEM THAT JEFF ABBOTT BUILT PUT THE OTHER 35 MPH ON IT. SO, AS I'VE TOLD OTHERS, I JUST DROVE IT AROUND AND THE REAL CREDITS GO TO THE CREW AND OTHER COMPETITORS HELPING.......MY RACING FAMILY.

                      SO, WHAT ABOUT 2022 AND SOMEONE SAYING THERE'S NO ONE "HANGING IT OUT" ANYMORE? WUFFF.........
                      WELL, IT LOOKS LIKE WE COULD HAVE AS MANY AS FOUR NEW YAKS RACING THIS YEAR IN ADDITION TO MINE IF I CAN GET IT DONE. NOW, THREE OF THESE MACHINES COULD HIT THE 400 MARK, WHICH IS MY GOAL FOR LYLIA. FOR THE 2016 RACE, WE HAD ALL THEM" LEEVERS" FORWARD AND FLEW EVERY HEAT RACE AND SILVER THE SAME WAY. I, PERSONALLY, THOUGHT THAT THIS WAS HANGING IT OUT AND LEAVING NOTHING IN THE BIN. I CAN TELL YOU FOR SURE, THE SAME WILL HAPPEN THIS YEAR AND THE OLD GIRL WILL SOUND A LITTLE DIFFERENT AND LOOK A LITTLE DIFFERENT AND IT BETTER GO A LITTLE FASTER FOR ALL THE WORK THAT'S GOING IN IT.

                      IN MY OPINION, MAYBE THE YAKS ARE THE ONES THAT COULD SUPPLY THE MOST COMPETITIVE RACING WITH ENGINES THAT "ONLY" COST $75K TO OVERHAUL. SO, MAYBE THERE WON'T BE ANY 480'S OUT THERE WITH TWO MACHINES SUPPLYING THE EXCITEMENT, BUT I'M BETTING THE 400 AND OVER CLUB WILL DARN SURE OFFER SOME FUN RACING FOR THE FANS AND IT WON'T BE A PARADE. HOPE TO SEE YOU ALL THERE AND LOOKING FORWARD, AS ALWAYS, TO THE GREAT PHOTOGRAPHERS SHOWING THEIR WARES AND SHOWING US WHAT OUR MACHINES LOOK LIKE AT SPEED....

                      VERY SINCERELY, DUSTY
                      Last edited by AAFO_WSagar; 01-17-2022, 12:22 AM. Reason: Could not help myself grammar police I guess

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: American Spirit, Shockwave, Lear Solution, Tsunami

                        Great to hear from you Dusty, and I'm very happy to take on board what you've said!
                        Zac in NZ

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: American Spirit, Shockwave, Lear Solution, Tsunami

                          A little flashback to 2016...



                          I can't wait to see a bunch of Yaks mixing it up with the Sea Furies again. There is going to be some good racing right around 400 mph. Yep Dreadnought will likely run away, but we might see Miss A in hot pursuit, then the battle for 3rd gets exciting.

                          You don't need 480+ racers for the Unlimiteds to be awesome, you need good racing. Hopefully this year will open the door for others to decide to come out and play as well.

                          Will

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: American Spirit, Shockwave, Lear Solution, Tsunami

                            Originally posted by RAD2LTR View Post
                            <-snip-> You don't need 480+ racers for the Unlimiteds to be awesome, you need good racing. Hopefully this year will open the door for others to decide to come out and play as well.
                            Amen brother!
                            Wayne Sagar
                            "Pusher of Electrons"

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: American Spirit, Shockwave, Lear Solution, Tsunami

                              Originally posted by Dusty View Post
                              HI GUYS..... LONG TIME NO VOICE....
                              I COME TO THIS SIGHT EVERY DAY, AND I MEAN EVERY DAY. I LOVE THE BANTERING WHEN IT'S DONE NICELY AND WITH DUE RESPECT. WE ALL HAVE OUR OPINIONS, AND HOPEFULLY, LOVE THE SPORT. MY FIRST AIR RACE WAS IN FULTON, NY WITH MY UNCLE, BILL FALCK, IN 1958. THIS WAS AFTER THE HANGAR FIRE WHERE RIVETS WAS BURNED TO A CRISP, AND I MEAN TO A CRISP. I BUCKED RIVETS WHILE HELPING WILLIE RESTORE RIVETS WHEN I WAS 7 YRS OLD. A STORY FOR ANOTHER DAY, BUT I JUST WRITE THIS HISTORY TO SHOW HOW MANY YEARS I HAVE BEEN INVOLVED WITH AIR RACING.
                              FOR YEARS, AND I MEAN YEARS, I TRIED TO GET RENO TO DO A ROOKIE GROUND SCHOOL THAT WASN'T DURING THE SUMMER WHEN CROP DUSTERS MADE THEIR LIVING AND TOOK CARE OF THEIR FARMER'S CROPS. I WROTE LETTERS AND RECEIVED NEGATIVES UNTIL SHERM CAME UP WITH THE IDEA OF HAVING THE ROOKIE SCHOOL EARLY AND DO THE FLYING PART THE WEEKEND BEFORE THE RACING STARTED. HE DID THIS FOR ME AND TWO OTHER ROOKIES THAT SAME TIME IN THE SPRING OF 2015. I WILL ALWAYS BE GRATEFUL FOR SHERM, OUR FEARLESS LEADER, FOR ACCOMPLISHING THAT NOT SMALL FEAT, AND FOR DENNIS SANDERS WHO FLEW WITH SHERM IN DREADNAUGHT TO WATCH ME.
                              ANYWAY, AS YOU MIGHT RECALL, WE CAME TO RNO IN '15 AND LEARNED A BUNCH, TO SAY THE LEAST. I KIND OF STUMBLED MY WAY AROUND THE COURSE WITH GENERATOR PROBLEMS, RADIO PROBLEMS, AND CARBURETOR ISSUES. THANKS TO THE SANDERS CREW, CHUCK CABE, PETE LAW, AND MY CREW, WE WERE ABLE TO OVERCOME SOME THINGS AND FINISH IN FRONT OF A COUPLE MUSTANGS IN THE SILVER. WHEW........WHAT A RIDE.
                              FOR THE 2016 RACES; WELL, IF IT HADN'T BEEN FOR NELSON AND CHAD EZELL, AND JEFF ABBOTT, I WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN THERE AND MAYBE WOULD HAVE BUSTED MY GRASS ON THE WAY IF JEFF HADN'T DISCOVERED THE SUPERCHARGER IMPELLER LOOKING LIKE SOMEONE THREW ROCKS IN IT AT 25000 RPM. TOO LONG A STORY TO WRITE HERE, BUT THIS ALONG WITH SAM DAVIS LETTING ME HAVE ONE OF HIS BIG SPINNERS AND US BUILDING A GRAPHITE AFTERBODY TO MATCH THE SPINNER DOWN TO THE DIAMETER OF THE POWER CASE.......THE LITTLE YAK STARTED TO MOVE. THE SPINNER/AFTERBODY FAIRING ( MY FIRST CRACK AT GRAPHITE) PUT 20 MPH ON AND THE ADI SYSTEM THAT JEFF ABBOTT BUILT PUT THE OTHER 35 MPH ON IT. SO, AS I'VE TOLD OTHERS, I JUST DROVE IT AROUND AND THE REAL CREDITS GO TO THE CREW AND OTHER COMPETITORS HELPING.......MY RACING FAMILY.
                              SO, WHAT ABOUT 2022 AND SOMEONE SAYING THERE'S NO ONE "HANGING IT OUT" ANYMORE? WUFFF.........
                              WELL, IT LOOKS LIKE WE COULD HAVE AS MANY AS FOUR NEW YAKS RACING THIS YEAR IN ADDITION TO MINE IF I CAN GET IT DONE. NOW, THREE OF THESE MACHINES COULD HIT THE 400 MARK, WHICH IS MY GOAL FOR LYLIA. FOR THE 2016 RACE, WE HAD ALL THEM" LEEVERS" FORWARD AND FLEW EVERY HEAT RACE AND SILVER THE SAME WAY. I, PERSONALLY, THOUGHT THAT THIS WAS HANGING IT OUT AND LEAVING NOTHING IN THE BIN. I CAN TELL YOU FOR SURE, THE SAME WILL HAPPEN THIS YEAR AND THE OLD GIRL WILL SOUND A LITTLE DIFFERENT AND LOOK A LITTLE DIFFERENT AND IT BETTER GO A LITTLE FASTER FOR ALL THE WORK THAT'S GOING IN IT.
                              IN MY OPINION, MAYBE THE YAKS ARE THE ONES THAT COULD SUPPLY THE MOST COMPETITIVE RACING WITH ENGINES THAT "ONLY" COST $75K TO OVERHAUL. SO, MAYBE THERE WON'T BE ANY 480'S OUT THERE WITH TWO MACHINES SUPPLYING THE EXCITEMENT, BUT I'M BETTING THE 400 AND OVER CLUB WILL DARN SURE OFFER SOME FUN RACING FOR THE FANS AND IT WON'T BE A PARADE. HOPE TO SEE YOU ALL THERE AND LOOKING FORWARD, AS ALWAYS, TO THE GREAT PHOTOGRAPHERS SHOWING THEIR WARES AND SHOWING US WHAT OUR MACHINES LOOK LIKE AT SPEED....
                              VERY SINCERELY, DUSTY
                              Please don't take what I posted as any sort of insult about your efforts, that was not my intent. Perhaps the days of 18 wheeled support rigs and teams of 20-30 people (some of whom would stay for 7-10 days in a hotel paid for by the owner) are over.
                              It actually seems like a rebirth, a reset I guess. If they continue to run the races eventually it will attract a group of a certain kind of people. It didn't begin with lots of money, it began with a lot of people with more desire and ideas than money. A couple of Yaks have been fast, some Sea Furies have been fast. Someone has to win right? Maybe the whole thing got a bit too big for its britches for a while. Sure was fun though.
                              Last edited by knot4u; 01-16-2022, 05:21 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: American Spirit, Shockwave, Lear Solution, Tsunami

                                NO WORRIES SIR , I UNDERSTAND
                                YA, TO FLY FOR SHERM AND DENNIS THE WEEK BEFORE AND HAVE AT LEAST PART OF A CREW THERE, IT TAKES 10 DAYS OF HOTELS AND FOOD TO KEEP PEOPLE HAPPY. I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT FINDING A SPONSOR TO KEEP GOING. ANY SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE WELCOME AS IT ISN'T REALLY MY CUP OF TEA AND I'VE ALWAYS DONE IT ON MY OWN SINCE I STARTED WITH THE MIDGETS IN '79. I ACTUALLY WOULD HATE TO THINK OF WHAT IT COSTS TO COME TO RENO FROM KANSAS AND HAVE A LITTLE RACE TRAILER LIKE THE MIDGETS MAKE THE TRIP WITH TOOLS AND SPARES. YA, YOU HAVE TO WANT TO DO IT PRETTY BADLY AND LOVE THE SPORT. AND, AS I GET OLDER, IT MEANS SO MUCH TO SEE THE PEOPLE WE SEE THERE ONLY ONCE A YEAR. STILL WISH YOU GUYS WOULD COME TO THE PITS AND INTRODUCE YOURSELVES. JUST LOOK FOR SOME FAT OLD RED-HEADED GUY THAT LOOKS CONFUSED

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