Updates from Reno...

[Lotahp1]

Re: Updates from Reno...

I for one would definitely not want the pilot health info recorded and logged etc by the government governing body etc. it?s already Every pilots responsibility to make sure they are safe for flight. Adding some health monitoring would do nothing but push out more people. Look at how the FAA treats different meds etc. to say we need More government oversight by monitoring the pilots etc will do nothing but kill the sport. In every accident we do not need to change laws, make not harder to do etc. i think In this case , if what I believe happened is true, the ?fix? is nothing more than requiring some additional training for the pilots when they get out of line and want to turn back into the course.

[Race5]

Re: Updates from Reno...

I for one would definitely not want the pilot health info recorded and logged etc by the government governing body etc. it?s already Every pilots responsibility to make sure they are safe for flight. Adding some health monitoring would do nothing but push out more people. Look at how the FAA treats different meds etc. to say we need More government oversight by monitoring the pilots etc will do nothing but kill the sport. In every accident we do not need to change laws, make not harder to do etc. i think In this case , if what I believe happened is true, the ?fix? is nothing more than requiring some additional training for the pilots when they get out of line and want to turn back into the course.

I agree. Internal oversight is one thing, but the last thing we need is more oversight from the Feds. Or any other outside agency.

[AirRaceFan]

Re: Updates from Reno...

I share the concerns about data being provided to external agencies/governments. And I especially share concerns about how the FAA treats (for example) psychiatric meds, which "forces" pilots to fly unmedicated. At the same time, I believe that a reasonable compromise is possible. As an example (and I am just throwing this out for discussion sake), all logged data could be anonymized and provided to a doctor in aggregate. If the doctor sees no issues, the data is destroyed. On the other hand, if the doctor sees an issue, they could report that "log W14, the pilot damn near passed out" and then RARA can take it from there. It is human nature that some humans are more willing to take risks than others, and some are more willing to ignore the signs of risk than others.

I do not think it unreasonable for RARA to establish a baseline level of safety in this area. Ultimately, the air races themselves are at risk. #29 impacted the ground with around 500mph horizontal velocity - and it traveled across the ground for 4+ seconds after the initial contact. 500mph is 733 feet per second. SO, in just the first two seconds after the initial contact, #29 covered over a quarter of a mile of ground. Had #29 carved out a path 25 feet wide and a quarter of a mile long through the crowd, we'd all already know that 2022 was our last year.

A fist bump and a tip of the hat is not enough assurance that someone is safe to pilot an aircraft over a crowd at 500mph. I say this as someone who wants to see Reno 2023 happen with another 500+mph jet class, and as someone optimistic enough to still hope to see #77 back on course some day at 480+.....

The races have to get smarter.

[1:1 Scale]

Re: Updates from Reno...

I've thought about this a little bit over the last few years, and I don't know if it could be made to work with the spectators, but it seems to me, the best thing to do for the longevity of the sport would be to change the venue. With all the continued growth that always seems to plague airports, it's not a matter of if, but when.

Relocating to someplace like the Black Rock desert where there's nothing to hit but the ground would be the safest option. Put the crowd and pits in the center of the course. Getting the fans to the location could be a challenge, and providing services, shade, etc. would be another challenge, but I think it would be the best option to ensure that the only people risking their lives are the people flying the planes.

For the record, I would HATE the inevitable dust and dirt, but I can't think of anyplace else that would provide the safety. Maybe Tonopah?

[knot4u]

Re: Updates from Reno...

I'd imagine you could probably get a few racers to show up for an invite only event in the middle of nowhere. They'd have to bring everything they needed with them including food, water, sanitation and housing (that's basically the description of an RV village). There is no rational reason to build a race plane, no one can justify it. Humans have always raced, on foot, on horses, on chariots, in cars and eventually in airplanes. It takes a certain kind of person to do these things and it's not for the money. Cleveland ended after Odoms accident and air racing disappeared for 25 years, it came back in the high desert of Nevada. No one is ever going to stop these people from competing, they're drawn together like magnets. No one cares how fast your airplane is if all you do is fly around by yourself. There's a lot of ego involved and we haven't progressed much.

[AirRaceFan]

Re: Updates from Reno...

I think the logistics of actually operating an air race for public viewing in the black rock desert would be prohibitively difficult. It might a bit easier to operate from Stead and fly out to a black rock course, but any maydays setting down in the desert would probably be there for a while. Community support / sponsorship / etc. would likely be problematic, and ground displays would be in a fairly hostile environment. It definitely wouldn't be the same event, and folks wouldn't have the opportunity to check out their favorites in the pits.

[Lockheed Bob]

Re: Updates from Reno...

How about Palmdale/Lancaster area or Mesquite NV?

[V1670]

Re: Updates from Reno...

How about Palmdale/Lancaster area or Mesquite NV?

hmmmm.... Kind of a related question: Why'd they stop racing at Mojave? I've been to Reno multiple times, but Mojave only once. I read where they DID race once at Lancaster. But why did it fail along with Phoenix and Miami?

[kennsmithf2g]

Re: Updates from Reno...

Racing in Cleveland ended in 1949 because of loss of the venue with the Military "bomber plant" needed to making tanks with the war in Korea. Air Racing was continued with the smaller planes for a short time at the Cleveland National Air Show over Lake Erie.

[Ryanshort1]

Re: Updates from Reno...

Is there no-place in Texas that would work for racing?

[Sky Critter]

Re: Updates from Reno...

hmmmm.... Kind of a related question: Why'd they stop racing at Mojave? I've been to Reno multiple times, but Mojave only once. I read where they DID race once at Lancaster. But why did it fail along with Phoenix and Miami?

I went to all 3 "races" in Phoenix. The first year was great. The second not so much and the third was a demo along with some monster trucks. The promoter over promised and under performed which resulted in the purse payouts being delayed, reduced or not made at all.

[Sky Critter]

Re: Updates from Reno...

I'm sure there are suitable locations for a new air racing venue. At the most basic level, there are a couple of high level requirements...

1. Suitable airfield with multiple adequate runways, terrain and infrastructure (including safety services)
2. Infrastructure for the attendees such as hotels, dining and entertainment

The hardcore race fan will go almost anywhere, regardless of conditions but the average attendee will not. There needs to be all the other "stuff" available. Reno has gambling, shows, dining, etc. The hard part is finding a location remote enough to have the open space but not too far from everything else.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Updates from Reno...

I'm sure there are suitable locations for a new air racing venue. At the most basic level, there are a couple of high level requirements...

1. Suitable airfield with multiple adequate runways, terrain and infrastructure (including safety services)
2. Infrastructure for the attendees such as hotels, dining and entertainment

The hardcore race fan will go almost anywhere, regardless of conditions but the average attendee will not. There needs to be all the other "stuff" available. Reno has gambling, shows, dining, etc. The hard part is finding a location remote enough to have the open space but not too far from everything else.

Hi Critter! I spent much of my time covering air racing trying to help expand the venue. Worked with Bob Avery to get Tunica, Vegas aad others going. It was tough then just getting enough SPONSORSHIP to get the bux to even make an effort to make it happen.

Now days, the problem would not only be getting the FAA and probably more importantly the local authorities to sign off.

Notably, it is not yet clear whether or not RENO will actually be able to continue. The accident on five illustrate how it's pretty much impossible to make it totally safe for spectators.

Not trying to rain on any parades here! I've just found it amazing that this sport has been allowed to continue and wonder if our luck will continue.. While I search my soul and ask if I really want it to...

This all deep from my heart and hopefully, I will not illicit any negative response..

[tim]

Re: Updates from Reno...

How about Palmdale/Lancaster area or Mesquite NV?

One spot that looks great is Pueblo Colorado. I don't think I've seen it mentioned. It is a ww2 military base. It has a large barren area to the viewable from the large tarmac. It has three in service runways, plus a fourth disused runway and it is not so far from reasonable population centers.

Kingman Arizona also has a similar layout, and not too far from Vegas.

[TarDevil]

Re: Updates from Reno...

Hi Critter!I've just found it amazing that this sport has been allowed to continue and wonder if our luck will continue.. While I search my soul and ask if I really want it to...

So many grim possibilities exposed on September 18. I appreciate your candidness, Wayne, and I'm lock-step with you.