I?m gonna be that guy?

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

I saw it go in...As an engineer understanding how and why something happens is how I cope.
Sincerely,
"Young" Thomas

knowing how something happens makes it more bearable.

[RAD2LTR]

Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

Here's a thought to address things being taken out of context. Why don't we move the technical discussion to the " Restricted Forum - Warbird Hardcore - None But The Brave" part of the forum? Yep, admin will need to grant clearance to people who wish to talk about it there, but at least its secure.

Will

[flyingjibus]

Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

I am sorry but the idea that a discussion on a message board of what may have happened could influence an FAA investigation or ruling and/or somehow being more damaging to the sport than the fireball that played on the evening news is fantasy land stuff to me.

No disrespect intended, and I understand that it is born out of the fact this air racing thing is precious to all of us, but if we are seriously worried that an out of context conversation can be that impactful, we all need to take a long look at what we are talking about, because to me that feels like WE KNOW this is too dangerous so we are worried that not using the correct language will fail to conceal that.

I completely understand the issue surrounding grieving family members and not smearing a recently dead persons name, but I dont think that is what anyone here would ever do. Its important to keep a distinction between what that looks like and what a bunch of people talking through a traumatic event they just witnessed looks like.

[ZacYates]

Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

I am personally of the mind that speculation is a healthy way to cope, but offline or in private conversation. I explained this situation to my wife who pointed out family and friends of the deceased could stumble upon such discussion. I don't envy the admins when an event like this occurs and I don't personally have a solution.

I?m still waiting for the ?official? report

We all are, and it will be some time before the report is out.

[GRNDP51]

Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

I think this whole "don't discuss what could have happened because it's disrespectful to the family" is a bit overboard. Heck, on Monday one of the young girls that grew up with Aaron as part of his close friends/family already said her theory of what happened publicly in an Instagram post...

[flyingjibus]

Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

I have experienced trauma first hand. I have lost family members to aviation incidents. I have sat with a dying person waiting for a helicopter to arrive. I assure you that people speculating about what might have happened in a public setting has no affect on the process of dealing with these types of things.

The key to facing things like this is normalizing something that feels unreal. The only way that happens is by talking about it.

in my experience, people who are telling you not to talk about something because it might make a 3rd party uncomfortable are actually the ones being made uncomfortable by the conversation and just have not realized that yet. All part of the process.

The only wrong thing you can do when processing trauma is attacking someone else for not processing it like you are.

Go back to 2011 and read that thread and you will see this exact conversation taking place.

Just keep talking about it. Normalize what feels unreal, because its very very real and its not ever going to "Go Away"

Love all you nerds.

[PowerByPackard]

Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

Deleted Post

[Ryanshort1]

Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

I have experienced trauma first hand. I have lost family members to aviation incidents. I have sat with a dying person waiting for a helicopter to arrive. I assure you that people speculating about what might have happened in a public setting has no affect on the process of dealing with these types of things.

The key to facing things like this is normalizing something that feels unreal. The only way that happens is by talking about it.

in my experience, people who are telling you not to talk about something because it might make a 3rd party uncomfortable are actually the ones being made uncomfortable by the conversation and just have not realized that yet. All part of the process.

The only wrong thing you can do when processing trauma is attacking someone else for not processing it like you are.

Go back to 2011 and read that thread and you will see this exact conversation taking place.

Just keep talking about it. Normalize what feels unreal, because its very very real and its not ever going to "Go Away"

Love all you nerds.

I agree. I actually saw a double fatal crash the week I started my flight training, and visited the third guy in the hospital. For whatever reason, I didn't quit right then and there.

[Warbirds45]

Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

If you look at Auto Racing, over 500 Drivers have lost their Lives in the Last 25 Years.
One of the Old Timers said, Air Racing is F…… Dangerous.
It is.

[RAD2LTR]

Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

Racing anything can be dangerous. Bicycles, gokarts, boats, cars, horses, cars, and airplanes, they all carry risk. We all know this when we take the start line, and we accept it. The risk of great bodily harm is always lingering in the background, but we try not to think about it. That said, crossing the street, or hell, for that matter sleeping, can result in death as well. It is a noble way to go out on the field of battle (or the race course) doing what we love.

Lets celebrate Aaron's life, and love for aviation and racing rather than dwelling on the fact that he is no longer with us.

Will

[wadeh]

Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

in my experience, people who are telling you not to talk about something because it might make a 3rd party uncomfortable are actually the ones being made uncomfortable by the conversation and just have not realized that yet. All part of the process.

Please don't speculate on what others feel. You are way off.

[flyingjibus]

Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

Please don't speculate on what others feel. You are way off.

I said in my experience, which is uniquely and unequivocally mine. No idea what yours is and I didnt and dont intend to try and say I do. Just offering what I know to be true to the pile of feelings.

[wadeh]

Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

Just offering what I know to be true to the pile of feelings.

You can't possibly know anything to be "true" about what another person is feeling. You can only know what they tell you. Any other conclusions are pure speculation.

I took your comment personally, specifically because I was probably the first, and most vocal, person on this forum to suggest refraining from public comment. The first part of your comment struck pretty close to home, but the conclusion is - as I said - way off.

[Suds]

Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

We dare not criticize the races right? How about suggesting something that will make it safer for the contestants and the spectators? Are we allowed to do that? I started going to the races in 1983 and started doing video in 1985. Some of my footage is on Utube from the 1980s. I had Lefty go over my head on Cheapskate Hill in White Lightning about 15 feet up. I was filming at the rope line n the pits in front of Leewards crew and family in 2011 when Jimmy went in, saw Gary Levitz go in, saw Brickert go in, and since then lot has been done to make the races safer for everyone. No doubt the races will continue only if the FAA and the insurance companies decide that they can continue. A bigger concern is the smaller turnout, the stands were only half or less full during the week and not full on Sunday no doubt because of the weather. The warbirds are getting older, the pilots are getting older, the audience is getting older. Younger people are just not interested in what flies over their heads. .

There are so many salient points you've made here, that I need to bullet point my response!

- You mention A LOT of pilots you've seen killed at the race. Culture and values are a dynamic and ever-changing thing. I don't know many individuals that would be willing to bring their family to an event that has the large potential to see a fatal accident.

- The attendance looks pretty meager on Saturday and Sunday. Weather and smoke a factor? Certainly. But we're seeing an alarming trend across motor sports in general, even the big ones. But the smaller niche sports are suffering some pretty severe problems. Wrenching is still popular, but more and more only with the individuals that are actually turning the wrench. I think it's why you see the exponential growth of "participatory" sports like mountain biking and extreme winter sports (for example).

- Older crowd, older planes. I'm a huge fan also of hydroplane racing. Like air racing, the audience is getting grayer, and there's a distinct lack of innovation (excepting the Sport & F1 classes...). For anyone not wrapped in nostalgia, it's going to be a difficult proposition to find common ground of a new breed of spectators: i.e. it's difficult to be nostalgic about something that existing 50 years before you were born.

- Getting back to point #1, someone mentioned that 500 people were killed in auto racing accidents. Doing a quick search, it shows that 520 people have died in the last 25 years. But the average per year has dropped significantly from 20 to 15 in the last two decades. Keep in mind, this is ALL organized sanctioned auto racing, worldwide.

21 air racers have been killed at ONE race per year since 1972. That's an incredible 50% chance of seeing someone die during any one race weekend! I don't believe the air racing sports management and hierarchy wants to see the blood thirsty NASCAR crowds of the 1970's start showing up at the air races and filling the stands screaming for carnage. But it's got a real potential to continue to add to the erosion in interest.

[GRNDP51]

Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

This thread kinda shifted away from the initial discussion, but whatever -

I might be looking at things too optimistically, but the attendance seemed about exactly the same as last year (which kept RARA in the green I believe). My dad and I also mentioned a handful of times how many "younger people" were there, in the pits specifically, not talking about the kids that come on the field trips. I would look one way and see a 30 year old couple walking around, and the other way was a 40 year old couple with their 2 kids. Was I seeing something different than everyone else?

The "old vintage warbird" thing is going to change eventually with the five Unlimited projects in the works, but is that going to draw a younger crowd? I personally think the Tsunami's and Shockwaves will just be grouped as "warbirds" anyway. I don't ever see Reno appealing to the next generation like video games, etc., but I do see Reno continuing successfully once we have an exciting Unlimited class again. Sorry to say it, but Tsunami being on the ramp would draw more people than the 5 other classes having 30 planes all competing for first place gold. That's just how it is and how it's going to stay. Luckily, we have that exciting Unlimited class on the horizon.