I?m gonna be that guy?

[chrs3590]

Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

Older crowd, older planes. I'm a huge fan also of hydroplane racing. Like air racing, the audience is getting grayer, and there's a distinct lack of innovation (excepting the Sport & F1 classes...). For anyone not wrapped in nostalgia, it's going to be a difficult proposition to find common ground of a new breed of spectators: i.e. it's difficult to be nostalgic about something that existing 50 years before you were born.

This discussion has shifted a bit, but that's not necessarily a bad thing ...

In regards to the above quote ... I was born in the 80's, grew up going to the air races every year in the 90's, and other than my own son who I brought with me to the air races this year (he's 9), I was the youngest person in our box.

One of the things that has always bugged me, especially in recent years, is how much time the announcers spend talking about things that occurred in air racing before I was born and how little they actually comment on the race happening right in front of them. Sometimes even to the point in which they have far less awareness of the positions of the racers then the casual fan watching.

I love the history of air racing and have eaten up most of the books written on air racing history and the many stories shared on this forum over the years ... but it's hard to help someone new engage with the races when even those whose job is to help spectators understand what is happening in the present, spend all their time talking about how much more interesting things were in the past ...

It's just a pet peeve I guess ...

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

This discussion has shifted a bit, but that's not necessarily a bad thing ...

We are really all on the same page here, shocked, hurt angry, you name it! We all witnessed something we're really not built to see. It's especially bad when you have some kind of connection to the trauma that you witnessed..

Again, we're all hurting in our own way

[Pylon1_Mark]

Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

One of the things that has always bugged me, especially in recent years, is how much time the announcers spend talking about things that occurred in air racing before I was born and how little they actually comment on the race happening right in front of them. Sometimes even to the point in which they have far less awareness of the positions of the racers then the casual fan watching.

I love the history of air racing and have eaten up most of the books written on air racing history and the many stories shared on this forum over the years ... but it's hard to help someone new engage with the races when even those whose job is to help spectators understand what is happening in the present, spend all their time talking about how much more interesting things were in the past ...

It's just a pet peeve I guess ...

I think you're just used to the way it used to be when this started for you instead of what you're getting now - but may not realize it. You see, you said you started going to Reno in the 90's... back when another announcer who's name used to get me in a bad way with RARA (sounds like andy anders , but has an "S" in front of both words) was doing it. It was a shame that he was never able to pass on his knowledge to the next... and it's never been the same. So yes, your memory may not recall all of that, but like myself hope that one day they could hold a candle to the master... or dare I say it... the artist formerly known as "the voice of Reno". (I actually think it's ok to say this stuff now that the old guard has left RARA - otherwise I'd probably be sideways with 'em again . Long story - maybe another time).

Anyway, it used to be that way dude... but as we say in Oklahoma - it ain't what it ain't.

edit. Just started thinking about what it ain't no more. You know, Sandy wouldn't just announce the race... he knew the pilots name, the owners name, the crew chiefs name, the modifications (if present) the engine builders name, hell - he'd often know the guy's crew member's names, his wife and kids name, as well as where the plane was based out of! And not just for the Unlimited Class - but for all classes. He'd announce the race as it was happening, describing the action in detail, and do so without missing a beat. Really miss that guy. You should watch a few old Skyfire videos... you'll see what I mean.

[GeeBeeZ1931]

Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

We dare not criticize the races right? How about suggesting something that will make it safer for the contestants and the spectators? Are we allowed to do that? I started going to the races in 1983 and started doing video in 1985. Some of my footage is on Utube from the 1980s. I had Lefty go over my head on Cheapskate Hill in White Lightning about 15 feet up. I was filming at the rope line n the pits in front of Leewards crew and family in 2011 when Jimmy went in, saw Gary Levitz go in, saw Brickert go in, and since then lot has been done to make the races safer for everyone. No doubt the races will continue only if the FAA and the insurance companies decide that they can continue. A bigger concern is the smaller turnout, the stands were only half or less full during the week and not full on Sunday no doubt because of the weather. The warbirds are getting older, the pilots are getting older, the audience is getting older. Younger people are just not interested in what flies over their heads. Scheduling the races during the weeks after younger people are back in school is a major problem for attendance as far as making the races a family adventure. As one of my friends from the fenceline (Chrisites Crew)said yesterday if the L29 had crashed 3 seconds later they would all have been incinerated. Think about what needs to be done again to make it safer for everyone.

Some agreement. some not. Sad as it is I've seen many pilots lost at Reno since 1987 just like this writer has. How to make it "safer" get rid of the jets and go back to the all props format AND longer course! Why was attendance bad? The lack of Unlimiteds, period! Not a doubt in my mind. Until they're back in force I won't be there and absolutely sure many others feel the same way. They are THE excitement. RARA and the Warbird/Unlimited pilots and owners have GOT TO GET THEIR HEADS TOGETHER or the races will fizzle and die as they seem to be doing today. 2017 was the last year with even a half decent showing for them in the pits and it has been 5 long years with no resolution to the impasse. I don't want to see that happen! Like it or not it's the truth.

[Pylon1_Mark]

Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

How to make it "safer" get rid of the jets and go back to the all props format AND longer course!

After reading your post, and although I do agree on much of it, I wanted to talk about why I feel a longer course isn't going to happen at Stead. I'm sure you remember back in 1999 when the course was shortened from 9.125 miles to "about" 8 miles due to the relocation of pylons 4, 5, & 6.



Unfortunately, that racecourse area that was lost simply was/is no longer available due to encroachment. There was a lot of rumors on why the land suddenly became unavailable for the air races but nothing was ever confirmed (one rumor was the BLM required the change, another was RARA selling off some of it's property around Stead to satisfy financial obligations, and there were others as well - but nothing confirmed. Back then getting news was sometimes like getting blood out of a turnip... this was one of those times. It didn't really matter anyway since it was already a done deal... that ship had sailed!). Regardless, there is just no room now to make the racecourse larger - we gotta work with what we got, unless you change venues. Like it or not, I wouldn't expect to see RARA going back to the old course layout, or even be able to make the current course larger. In fact, I think the opposite will occur.

Using past history as an example, Reno Air Racing started out on a 8.019 mile race course back in 1964 and stayed between 8 and 8.5 miles until 1971 when the course was changed to 9.8 miles. Just like Reno's "Short Course" of today, the speeds were down BUT the competition was fierce. The slower guys just seemed faster back then (maybe a bit of nostalgia creeping in here) and there appeared to be more cluster groupings of aircraft fighting for position. Yes, the top gold class competitors on today's racing circuit are a far cry from their early contemporaries, much faster and much more refined. But the actual complexion of air racing hasn't changed a great deal over the years. There are still the stockers, the slightly modified aircraft and the pure racers.... a shortened course should allow for better and closer competition within these groupings. Still not convinced? A look at other racing venues (Unlimited Hydroplane Racing, NASCAR, CART, etc.) that have tracks of varying length - all have one thing in common. The shorter tracks have more action, more position changes, and tighter competition. Although this isn't Air Racing, it's not so far removed to be able to draw the reasonable conclusion that they all share some common similarities.

I actually think a shortened course is more likely to occur due to the accident in order to reduce speeds - which it would. As distasteful as it sounds the likelihood of a shorter course may be something we have to get used to. Just something to consider.

[GRNDP51]

Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

I think you're just used to the way it used to be when this started for you instead of what you're getting now - but may not realize it. You see, you said you started going to Reno in the 90's... back when another announcer who's name used to get me in a bad way with RARA (sounds like andy anders , but has an "S" in front of both words) was doing it. It was a shame that he was never able to pass on his knowledge to the next... and it's never been the same. So yes, your memory may not recall all of that, but like myself hope that one day they could hold a candle to the master... or dare I say it... the artist formerly known as "the voice of Reno". (I actually think it's ok to say this stuff now that the old guard has left RARA - otherwise I'd probably be sideways with 'em again . Long story - maybe another time).

Anyway, it used to be that way dude... but as we say in Oklahoma - it ain't what it ain't.

edit. Just started thinking about what it ain't no more. You know, Sandy wouldn't just announce the race... he knew the pilots name, the owners name, the crew chiefs name, the modifications (if present) the engine builders name, hell - he'd often know the guy's crew member's names, his wife and kids name, as well as where the plane was based out of! And not just for the Unlimited Class - but for all classes. He'd announce the race as it was happening, describing the action in detail, and do so without missing a beat. Really miss that guy. You should watch a few old Skyfire videos... you'll see what I mean.

Mark, after Steve Stavrakakis passed a week or so before Reno 2021, Sandy Sanders returned to announcing, and he announced again this year.

[Pylon1_Mark]

Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

I'm sure Sandy is doing his best considering his 20 year absence until last year. That's a lot of years to catch up on.... too many to expect him to be like he used to be. Heck, if I'm doing half as good as he is doing when I'm his age I will consider myself fortunate.

[ZacYates]

Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

I think this whole "don't discuss what could have happened because it's disrespectful to the family" is a bit overboard. Heck, on Monday one of the young girls that grew up with Aaron as part of his close friends/family already said her theory of what happened publicly in an Instagram post...

I totally get that, and I hadn't seen that - good on her.

[CRJpilot]

For those that haven't seen this, the NTSB has recently released their final report on this accident.

Link: L-29 Race 29

Don