Could Sport Class Racers Replace Unlimited?

[AAFO_WSagar]

Ok, here's the question.. With some really HOT entries into the sport class already flying and nearing completion... and speeds of same already exceeding that of some of the Unlimited class airplanes....

In your humble opinions.. could this class ever "replace" the Unlimiteds?

[52eme]

no..

imho these classes should cohabit the same way as the greve and thompson trophies did in the '30s.

[MattB]

Not Replace

But I think there is room for both in the hearts of race fans. Its a different sport to me. Unlimited has old war birds, and a lot of things that go along with the ride. I dont think you could replace that.

MattB

[ecvsteve]

The sound

The whole sound of the race is different. the sport class cant load a V12 in the nose.
The sound of a pair of griffens or merlins is awsome at race power.
But they (sport Class) will be faster and handle the course in the not to future.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Just so you guys know how I personally feel.. I don't think *anything* can replace the airplanes that we all love to hear.. I get chills whenever any of those old big engines start up..

What prompted my idea for the poll was a blurb that runs about 12 or more times a day on Discovery Wings.. In it they have Jon Sharp featured with Nemesis, then go on to explain how he retired the airplane and was coming back with NemesisNXT.. (the blurb is about a year old from the info in it) They then go on to sort of speculate, saying that some think that this class will replace the Unlimiteds..

We all know, this will never happen. They may get faster than the Unlimiteds.. which would be terribly exciting and good for general aviation and would also follow along with the tradition of racing anything improving the day to day use of that anything (except lawn mowers)

GA airplanes are already much better than they were a few years ago. If you can afford one, you can cruise at pretty high numbers, both in altitude and speed with a private airplane now.. Imagine if that mark raises!

At any rate.. I suspected that the vote would be totally in the NO category... just wanted to spark some debate on the subject after hearing that blurb on DW for about the 400th time

Hey.. they have a rerun of the "Carrier - Fortress At Sea" that I've only seen three times.. gotta run catch it again!

Wayne

[mayday51]

No,No,Never......

Wayne,you ststed it well....we will never replace the unlimiteds...
even if they were all purpose built "specials" ((like Tsunami)

...I do think we will be seeing some very exciting "Sports" races in the next few years...I for one get chills hearing the engines and prop noise even from the T-6s !....

...."ain't no such thing as a Bad race"....('cept the one ya miss!)

Great work you guys,that Bear moves quick for a big guy!

[matt]

i agree with 52 eme's idea, they will eventually mesh together.

steve, remember that thunder mustangs have v12's, i like to wonder about a batten (now atlas) v12 - remember bear's interview with eric ahlstrom on the "dart" - of 1002 cu. in.'s, this's a good 400 more than the falconer and would be the equivalent of adding a griffon to a mustang, i believe the plane could hold the weight and would have a TREMENDOUS hp advantage over most of the field.

[hattend]

Well, I voted no but with a caveat. The Warbirds will never be "replaced"...they are just too cool.

But. as the Warbird-based airframes/engines are attrited away either due to age, conversion back to stock for museums or crashing (God forbid) then eventually they will have to be replaced.

I may be wrong but there are only so many overhauls you can do on a Wright/Pratt/Rolls, right? (Motorheads... help me out) How many war surplus engines are out there anyway?

Unless the airframes are modified to take turbines (sacrilege) then, eventually, they will have to be retired, too.

It'll be interesting to see if the Sport Class planes will ever get to 500mph.

[Kraz]

Not *IF*- But *When*

The question isn't IF the sport class will replace the Unlimited, rather: When???

I love the Unlimited as much as the next person, but let’s face it--they are a dying breed. Back in the late 50’s you could by a surplus warbird for less than a car—or at least not much more than one. This made racing VERY affordable and accessible.

However, today- the unlimiteds are MUCH too expensive to draw fresh metal into the sport. With the planes themselves becoming so rare, most collectors are mothballing them rather than even flying them to local fly-ins or shows—much less race them at 50 ft off the sage brush and sand.

You will likely never see another P-38 fly the pylons, much less a P-39 or such. The field will unfortunately continue to dwindle as more and more warbirds become dust collectors in Museums.

Yes, the sport class IS the future of air racing. I will miss the big motor bird terribly though—so I will enjoy them as much as I can in the mean time.

Kraz

[AAFO_WSagar]

Originally posted by hattend
It'll be interesting to see if the Sport Class planes will ever get to 500mph.

This is a mark that almost makes me shudder at times. When we spoke with "Kerch" back in '97 http://www.aafo.com/racing/people/kerch.htm it really seemed as though he thought that we should be slowing down rather than going faster.. Which made it all the more interesting to see him behind the effort to shoot for 500 at R2K..

As spectators, we're not going to be able to tell much (if any) difference between 480 and 500 for a lap speed.. What the airframe and pilot are seeing are a completely different world in that extra 20mph..

As much as I like records and balls out competition.. I'm not sure I want to see *anyone* going that fast on the course at Reno....

Wayne

[GWB]

I have to agree with Kraz.

Economics, and a finite, yet decreasing, supply of big iron, and the parts to keep them flying will provide the ultimate answer.

I don't like that answer, though. I love seeing and hearing any sort of warbird!

Can a buzzing group of composite lawn darts replace them? I dunno....certainly not in sound and "presence"; but maybe in speed. Will it be the same.......I don't think so.

On the positive side, I recall a similar question being raised in the late sixties / early seventies. Thirty years later, the Unlimiteds feld is as strong and vital as ever.

[hattend]

As the course at Reno gets tighter due to encroachment they'll have to go slower. Physics sucks.

The 500mph I mentioned is straightline, not course speed. I guess if you hang a big enough engine on a Lancaire it'll go that fast.

I love this thread... I think it's been a discussion with my friends for 2 decades. "What will take the place of Warbirds?" "Will people still go if the Unlimited speeds drop down into the 300s again?" "Will Reno have to be moved?"

[ecvsteve]

Thinder mustang

I love the thunder mustang, cutest damn thing in the air and it does have a different sound to even the sports class.
I love this industry it hasn't standardized itself yet, problably never will.
from some of the things I have seen on the modeling sites aviation has a lot paths to still take.

[Keith Doyne]

This Thread

I hate to say it, but Kraz is right. The expense own a warbird is huge, let alone the expense to race it. However, air racing is getting more expensive for all of the classes. What is the cost to field a competitive sport class racer? My guess is $250,000(+). When you consider the cost of the kit, engine, instruments, radios, etc. Air racing is one of those sports where the competitors (and their families) want to be there, even if they don't make money on it. In Pennyslvania, I see the same thing with the dirt track racers. They love to compete, race, and they realize there is no real money to be made. However, they keep coming back year after year. There is just something about the sights and sounds of air racing that keeps me a fan.


Keith Doyne

P.S.: Yes, there are air racing fans east of the Mississippi

[GWB]

You're right about the dirt track racin' analagy, Keith. There are cars there every Saturday night, occasionally smack it up, sometimes really badly, and be back the next weekend - and you know the repairs come out of the grocery money. The local track used to do a roll-over fund, and that would help, but would never cover much of the cost. Full moon nights are the worst.....more accidents and red lights than the norm. This is a consistent trend I have noticed over a lot of years......

But, bottom line, racing is expensive - even at the grass roots level, and goes up from there!!!

$1000 to re-barrel a single cylinder - sheeeesh! - and like as not, there are 17 more in line behind it......