Are Griffon engined racers the answer?

[jarrodeu]

There are plenty of Griffon engines around and they are usually more reliable. Amazingly only a handful of racers have used the Griffon engine and they have had good but not great rounds. Miss Ashley II was very aerodynamically sleek. Though it never won it was always at the top. Precious Metal and Roto-Finish/Red Barron had more success setting records and winning races. Could so little interest mean the Griffon engine is not the answer? How will Precious Metal do this year and in the following years? Any more Griffon powered racers in the near future?

Jarrod

[matt]

Re: Are Griffon engined racers the answer?

just a note jarrod, precious metal has only won one race, the bronze last year at 407 mph, good work Ron! .

when i was first learning how to design my own racer, i thought inside the box, meaning a mustang derivitive. on my old computer i have a modified picture of precious metal (along with a picture of an actual model of the design) showing what my dream for the future was, griffon powered, boil off cooled mustang wannabe with an exceedingly huge tail and an exceedingly small wing. the problem with the griffon i found is that it's an old, heavy design which costs alot of money to install into a mustang airframe. that's not to say it's a bad engine that can't produce mondo hp, it can but the cubic dollars required to install one (building new mounts and new plumbing), modifying and feeding it is not worth the money in the short term, remember these guys are not infinitely rich.

as for how precious metal this year, i think she'll do well, ron's not gonna pull all the stops out but the plane i think will place well.

[jarrodeu]

Re: Are Griffon engined racers the answer?

Precious metal also won the Silver in Pheonix and Silver in Reno both in 1995. After the rebuild.
Jarrod

[matt]

Re: Are Griffon engined racers the answer?

d'oh, i never went to phoenix which is why i didn't remember, thanks.

[jarrodeu]

Re: Are Griffon engined racers the answer?

I didn't either, I read it in the book Griffon Powered Mustangs.
Jarrod

[speeddemon]

Re: Are Griffon engined racers the answer?

as for how precious metal this year, i think she'll do well, ron's not gonna pull all the stops out but the plane i think will place well.

Must be the nose art!

[Race 29]

Re: Are Griffon engined racers the answer?

First, I must preface this by saying I don't think there's too many things that look or sound better than a Griffon powered Mustang. That said, I think the achiles heel of that design is the weight and fuel burn, as well as said cost. I had heard that Strega was ultimately supposed to be powered by a Griffon, then I went down to Shafter and saw the engine that they had. It's a monster! The thing was so much bigger than a Merlin that I (and they) don't think they would have gained any more speed, but would have burned way more fuel. I would have loved to see Strega with a Griffon and an "H" tail (would've registered a 10 on the cool factor) but I really think they got it right the first time with the mouse motor!

Race 29

[pigout1]

Re: Are Griffon engined racers the answer?

Just looking up some info on the Griffon engine and found a site that has some good information on the Griffon that was flown on the Red Baron. Here is the link some good information in it www.home.aone.net.au/shack_one/rolls.htm

[MerlinV12]

Re: Are Griffon engined racers the answer?

When can we see new griffon engined racers with maby new engine tech??
And when do we see a racers do 600 mph??

[Unregistered]

Re: Are Griffon engined racers the answer?

We already did at Mojave in 1973. Three F-86's on a 15 mile course, pulling close to their G limit, went 600 to 636 depending on the rated thrust.

[Phantom Samurai]

Re: Are Griffon engined racers the answer?

As has already been stated, the conversion from Merlin to Griffon in a Mustang is a very complicated piece of engineering. Couple that with a few unfortunate characteristics of the Shackelton Griffon (the readily available engine of which you speak), and it stands to reason why the very fastest Mustang racers of all time were Merlin powered.

IMHO, the biggest drawbacks to the Shackelton Griffon (-58, I believe?) are the contra-prop nosecase and the lack of a dual-stage blower. Despite the neutralization of the P-factor with the contra-prop setup, I've talked to more than one knowledgeable person who believe that the inherent drag of the six prop blades far outweighs any advantages. And unfortunately, there are no single prop Griffon nosecases available for experimentation (unless you could talk one of the Fairey Firefly folks out of one! ). Precious Metal and the Red Baron did address the second issue by incorporating the dual-stage blower from another model Griffon (-73, I believe?) in order to generate the boost necessary to make big-time HP. But as we know, the blower gear setup was the ultimate demise of the Red Baron, and as I understand it, caused them a multitude of headaches over the years. Miss Ashley II never did use the dual-stage blower, which was a limiting factor in ultimate engine performance.

So basically, it comes down to this: You could spend a lot of time and money doing the Griffon retrofit to your Mustang racer - not to mention the engine mods and R & D necessary to make it a true top-notch contender (but still, unfortunately, with the contra-prop nosecase) - OR, you could spend the money and use a reliable, proven, 11 time Reno Gold winning Merlin powerplant. As I've said many times before - "Make Mine Mouse Merlin Mustang".

TPS - "MMMMM"

[Chris G]

Re: Are Griffon engined racers the answer?

" Despite the neutralization of the P-factor with the contra-prop setup, I've talked to more than one knowledgeable person who believe that the inherent drag of the six prop blades far outweighs any advantages"


Then why not just 2 blades per spinner?

Theoretically the Griffon "should" produce more hp than a merlin because of the larger displacement.Although i`ve read the Griffons have some fairly tame valve timing as apposed to the mild to wild cams in a mouse merlin. A dual stage blower would help out alot as well.

[Phantom Samurai]

Re: Are Griffon engined racers the answer?

"Theoretically the Griffon "should" produce more hp than a merlin because of the larger displacement."

Oh, agreed. But with the pieces and parts currently available to the Griffon community, this would take a lot of time and money. Provided the parts I spoke of in the previous post were available, and given a couple years for development, I think you could have a monster race motor. But remember, it's going to take in the neighborhood of 4,000 HP to unseat the Mouse Merlin as king of the inlines.

TPS - "MMMMM"

[Matt58]

Re: Are Griffon engined racers the answer?

I do not have the Mustang lingo so to say but what is the difference between the Merlin and the Griffon anyway. From what I can gather, the Griffon has contra-rotating props. But is that it. Please, please, please go easy on me. I am trying to learn all of this. What year and what model mustang did the Griffon go in. And also, what is the differences between the mustangs (model wise). Thanks a lot. And remember, go easy on me.

[matt]

Re: Are Griffon engined racers the answer?

ok, the difference between merlin and giffon is roughly 600 cu. in.'s (merlin has 1650 and the griffon has 2240) and the crankshaft runs clockwise on a griffon.

no model of mustang was ever produced with a griffon engine although it would have happened had the jet age not come to fruition. although it probably would've had more in common with the p-39, p-63 or the ill fated p-75 (which was an amalgation of different planes; p-40, p-51, sbd, p-39, and others).