Section 3's new web site

[Section3guy]

Ok section 3 has a new web site! alot better, and eazyer to find than the last one www.renosection3.com

[Eric]

Re: Section 3's new web site

I like the Mark Johnston disclaimer.

[Randy Haskin]

Re: Section 3's new web site

I like the Mark Johnston disclaimer.

For those of us uneducated, what's the story?

[Section3guy]

Re: Section 3's new web site

section 3 is a bunch of air race fans that started to recognize each other year after year at the air races.and started sitting in section 3.Soon after the orange shirts started showing up,Now 20 years later we are still there making noise.So if you come to the air races you cant miss us, we are loud ,we are colerful and we have the most fun at the air races .Just listen for all the air horns and yelling

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Section 3's new web site

heh heh...I think he meant whats the story behind the disclaimer...I'm curious.

[Gary Osif]

Re: Section 3's new web site

All Of M. Johnstons' pix are copywrited and property of RARA.

Anyone using images from the www.airrace.org site will be notified with what Wayne characterized as a "less than nice letter".

It may even come in the form of a 'cease and desist' order from RARAs' attorneys...........

Gary

https://www.propsracing.com

[Section3guy]

Re: Section 3's new web site

The disclaimer ..... Due to a malicious attempt on Mr. Johnstons part to try and shut down my old website after he had brought to my attention that I had some of his pictures on my website that were copywritten. I removed them as soon as I became aware of the mistake I had made. I apologized repeatedly in e-mails and in the public message board. It was not my intention to steal his work, I was just putting some cool pictures on my site that I thought other people would enjoy seeing. I didn't realize that I could not use them, but am very careful now. I am new at this and feel he didn't have to act in such a manner. I felt bad about using his photos unaware that I couldn't but he didn't stop there he wanted to make me sorry for doing it. He was aware that I had removed the photos immediately and I had even corresponded with him several times that same day. My disclaimer lets people know as well as him that there are none of his pictures on my site nor will there ever be.

I took this as an effort on his part to squash the smaller guy.

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Section 3's new web site

I doubt he was trying to "squash" anyone, but rather, he was just trying to protect his property from mis-use. I imagine he has beed dragged down this alley before, and is sensitive to having his works re-used on other websites without his permission.

Yes, he should have emailed you first with A demand to remove his pics, but I can't tell what he did or didn't do from where I stand.

But mis-use of copyrighted media is not something new.....re-using someone else's works and efforts on the internet has always been a touchy subject. All is well now....Let's move on, with lessons learned the hard way.

[Section3guy]

Re: Section 3's new web site

You are right about moving on but let me say that he did e-mail me and I took care of it that day and we had even corresponded with each other regarding it and he said thank you.... after I took care of it he still tried to have it shut down, .........but anyways on with the new site and no problems. So lets just let it go and move on.

[Pylon1_Mark]

Re: Section 3's new web site

but anyways on with the new site and no problems. So lets just let it go and move on.

You know, that's a heathy attitude.... Don't let anyone rent space in your head. Life is too short, and there are far to many things that are fun.

If you ever need any pics, hit me up bro

[Eric]

Re: Section 3's new web site

thats a great avatar....he truly looks like a happy camper.

[Pylon1_Mark]

Re: Section 3's new web site

thats a great avatar....he truly looks like a happy camper.

Thanks buddy

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Section 3's new web site

thats a great avatar....he truly looks like a happy camper.

Yea Markers... I like that one too!

Got a book that my lady gave me when my current problem cropped up.... "Don't sweat the small stuff - and it's all small stuff" something like that... gotta get down and read that sucker...!




Wayner

[markj]

Re: Section 3's new web site

You are right about moving on but let me say that he did e-mail me and I took care of it that day and we had even corresponded with each other regarding it and he said thank you.... after I took care of it he still tried to have it shut down, .........but anyways on with the new site and no problems. So lets just let it go and move on.

Before we let it go and move on, satisfied that I am a total pr!ck, let me report a few facts:

1 - Under US and International Law, photographers hold copyright to their photos unless they specifically give them away to someone else. RARA does not hold copyright to the photos I take - I do.

2 - Section3guy grabbed a bunch of photos off the airrace.org Web site, cropped out the embedded copyright notices [what did you think they were there for?] and posted them on his Web site.

3 - I contacted him on 23 Aug using the email address on the site requesting that the photos be removed. Here's the text of that message:

I'm writing to request that you remove all of the graphics and photos on
www.geocities.com/renosection3/ and www.geocities.com/doc_clan_2003 that
have been copied from airrace.org.

Here's a partial list -

[snipped out the list]

There may be others - I'm asking you to remove everything that came from
the Reno Air Racing Association/National Championship Air Races Web sites.

I also noticed you copped Fred Steven's shot of Dago Red glinting in the
sun from warbird.com - I can only hope you got permission from him to do
that. Looks like a number of other photographers are represented there
as well - I hope voluntarily.

I gotta tell ya that although I really do appreciate your being a fan of
the Races, and I don't see any commercial purpose,
it just baffles me that you would take somebody else's work and put it
on your Web site. And even that might not even be a problem if you had
just asked first.

Anyway I'd appreciate hearing back from you that you've removed the
items listed above and anything else that was taken off airrace.org.

Thanks and regards,

Mark Johnston

I received no response. In the meantime, additional stuff from airrace.org appeared - the race course map for example.

On 25 August, I wrote the following to the Yahoo/Geocities copyright address, quoting my original message to Section3guy:

Dear Mr. Dougherty,

The email message below describes content to which I am copyright holder which appears without permission on two geocities.com Web sites, at the URLs indicated.

As I have received no response from the site owner, I am writing to
request that you enforce the geocities/yahoo copyright policy, and have
the offending content removed as soon as possible.

I hereby assert that I am copyright holder to the content described in
the "partial list" below, and that the content described has been used
without my permission.

Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter. Please feel free to
contact me at this email address if you require further information.

Regards,

I did not ask Yahoo/Geocities to shut the site down, I just asked them to have the copyrighted content removed.

On 27 Aug, still not having heard anything from Section3guy nor Yahoo, I cc'd the original request to another email address I found on a different Section 3 Web site with the following intro:

I sent this to "renosection3@yahoo.com" earlier this week. No response.
I'm hoping that this address will work and that this request can be
forwarded to the right person.

Thanks,

I wrote another message to Yahoo/Geocities on 30 August. After one week, still not a single word from Section3guy or anybody else.

On 31 Aug I wrote another note to the first Section 3 email address, with the following text at the top:

I would appreciate your taking immediate action on the request below.

What you're doing is not only in violation of US copyright law, it is
also against the Geocities/Yahoo Terms of Service:

"Yahoo! respects the intellectual property of others, and we ask our
users to do the same. Yahoo! may, in appropriate circumstances and at
its discretion, disable and/or terminate the accounts of users who may
be infringing the intellectual property rights of others."

Finally, on 1 September, I got a message from Yahoo saying they had taken "appropriate action".

I also got a message from Sean G:

ok i think i got every thing, i deleated things that i wasnt even sure about. the few things that are still on there eather some one else sent me or is something that i took. Let me know if any of those are yours.If i had known how to concact you about the pics i whould have. again sorry if i made you mad , was never my intention. You just take really cool pics.i can wait to see this years set.(none will find a way onto my sites)

To which I replied:

Sean -

Thanks for removing them. Have fun at the Races.

Mark

And as far as I was concerned that was the end of it until I became aware of this thread.

Sorry for the long boring message, but what I want to say is:

- It's not cool [or legal] to take photos or other content from somebody's Web site without permission and put it on your own. We get regular requests on airrace.org to use photos from the site for publications that are promoting air racing or aviation - Local EAA Chapters, Red River Valley Fighter Pilots Assn., etc. and in almost all they are permitted to use photos.

- It took a week before Sean responded, and by then I had sent three messages to him and two to Yahoo. In the meantime, more and more stuff from airrace.org was showing up on his Web site. He certainly did not remove them immediately. To this day I don't know whether the only reason he responded was because Yahoo got on his case.

- As a result of Sean ripping off the photos and graphics from airrace.org, I have to come on here and defend myself from his bad mouthing, and I get to enjoy a "no Mark Johnston" symbol on his Web site.

That's just isn't right, man.

Mark Johnston

[Randy Haskin]

Re: Section 3's new web site

I get to enjoy a "no Mark Johnston" symbol on his Web site.

C'mon...you're nobody until you've been banned from somewhere. Sounds like a badge of honor...