Are there photos of "Shockwave"?

[Guest]

I once saw a **really** grainy pic of a model, but that's it. Is anything out there on it?

I picked up a 1/48 Sea Fury in a hobby shop today. I have some old F-86s I can chop up for a tail......

[Lowell]

Re: Are there photos of "Shockwave"?

A few references here:

Air Classics Oct. 93 p.81

Sportsman Pilot Fall 94 p.9-10

Sportsman Pilot Summer 95 p. 20-22

Pacific Flyer Nov 96 p.A14

Air Classics Aug. 97 p.___

[Apteryx]

Re: Are there photos of "Shockwave"?

Guest/Guest-
Per report on this website, it was a callaberation between Darryl Greenamyer & AmJet Aviation, Pete Law and Bruce Boland were involved. That might help track down further info...
Took a search hit on Air Classcs June '95 issue, also.
Good Luck.................................Paul

[Jeff Williams]

Re: Are there photos of "Shockwave"?

As many probably saw, this model was displayed in the "AeroChia" area of the Sport Class Hangar. I talked with a rep. from the company that seemed to know quite a bit about the project. He said it was more than 60% complete (including a racing engine). We'll see...

[Chauffeur MAN]

Re: Are there photos of "Shockwave"?

Thanks guys-
I'll look for those magazines.

Jeff- thanks also for the photo of the model. That helps a lot. I'll bust out the dremel and the putty now.

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Are there photos of "Shockwave"?

Looking at that model photo brings a question to mind. Do sharply swept wings and/or tail surfaces make that much of a difference at the speeds Reno racers are reaching? Just by intuition, I would think you'd have to be closer to 600 mph or more rather than 500mph at low altitudes (below 10,000 feet)for such shapes to make a perceptable difference.

I know there were experiments done long ago with placing swept wings on a few P-39s or P-63s. I read an article and saw photos of two in a magazine long ago (Air Classics? Air Progress? Air & Space Smithsonian? I cannot recall where). Sure wish I had managed to hang on to those old issues.

I also remember one of those 2 planes had what might be called a delta wing with a high-angle sweep (30-45 degrees), but I don't recall any performance improvements being reported, except maybe when the planes were dived steeply from high altitudes. I believe they were scrapped or converted back after the experiments were concluded.

I searched dozens of web pages, but I can't find any references to these one-up aircraft. Anyone else recall seeing them?

[speeddemon]

Re: Are there photos of "Shockwave"?

Looking at that model photo brings a question to mind. Do sharply swept wings and/or tail surfaces make that much of a difference at the speeds Reno racers are reaching? Just by intuition, I would think you'd have to be closer to 600 mph or more rather than 500mph at low altitudes (below 10,000 feet)for such shapes to make a perceptable difference.

I know there were experiments done long ago with placing swept wings on a few P-39s or P-63s. I read an article and saw photos of two in a magazine long ago (Air Classics? Air Progress? Air & Space Smithsonian? I cannot recall where). Sure wish I had managed to hang on to those old issues.

I also remember one of those 2 planes had what might be called a delta wing with a high-angle sweep (30-45 degrees), but I don't recall any performance improvements being reported, except maybe when the planes were dived steeply from high altitudes. I believe they were scrapped or converted back after the experiments were concluded.

I searched dozens of web pages, but I can't find any references to these one-up aircraft. Anyone else recall seeing them?

If I'm not mistaken, those King Cobras were modified as testbeds for 'low speed' handling characteristics of a swept wing. It had nothing to do with improving the speed of the airframe. In fact, I think the planes had the gear fixed in the down position. Never meant to 'go fast'.

[W J Pearce]

Re: Are there photos of "Shockwave"?

Speeddemon and all,

They were two modified P-63s redesignated L-39-1 and -2 because it was a Navy project. Unofficially also called XP-63N. It was the US's first swept-wing aircraft. It was a research plane that went on to add data for the X-2 program.

http://www.aerofiles.com/bell-l39.jpg

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p63_11.html

Bill Pearce

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Are there photos of "Shockwave"?

Ah...There you go. The photos are of one of the planes (didn't see the delta wing one though, which I believe had a smaller wingspan). Looks like the wheels are retracted too. Thanks Pearce!

Funny thing. I did some more searching, and came up with a "P-63 Bonanza", so to speak, designated XP-63N (the swept wing planes had no "X" in the designation).

Namely, it's a P-63 with a V-tail. Never heard of that one before. THere's a description, but no pic:

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p63_13.html

[W J Pearce]

Re: Are there photos of "Shockwave"?

I have seen more photos of the swept-wing P-63 and it looks like the nose gear was retractable but the mains were not. That's all I can get from an old photo, I have not idea if that is truly the case.

I can't seem to find any web photos for the vee-tail. You aren't really missing much.

The link you posted is Joe Baugher's site. He has an incredible amount of reference material but no photos. He has avoided that whole copyright thing by simply not using any photos. Kind of a shame but I understand his reasoning.

Can you describe the delta-wing aircraft more?

Bill Pearce

[speeddemon]

Re: Are there photos of "Shockwave"?

If you want the full story of the 'swept wing' Cobra's, find a copy of Birch Matthew's book "Cobra!"

It is one of the treasures of my library. It's very thick...expensive...and chock full of color and black & white photos. Worth every penny! It was published six or seven years ago, and it is chock full of anything and everything that you would ever want to know about the P-39 and P-63....from development, wartime use, testbed use by Bell, the "Pinball" project, and of course, every Cobra that ever turned a pylon.

There is a complete chapter on the Vee tail, and the swept wing planes. Bill is right...the nose gear was retractable, but the main gear was fixed in the down position.

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Are there photos of "Shockwave"?

Can you describe the delta-wing aircraft more?

The B&W photo was a front/left side view of the plane on the ground. The camera view may have been elevated a bit, because I was able to see the planform of the wing.


The delta wing itself was a shorter wingspan than the swepted wing, and appeared to have a straight or nearly-straight trailing edge. The leading edge of the delta had a somewhat greater sweep angle than the other wing. The tips were clipped/squared off, rather then coming to a point.


The fog of time has blurred my memory, but I think both planes had the swept wing for a time, then one was modified to the delta. I won't bet my 2005 reno tickets on it though...it's been so long, and I only saw it in that one mag (in the 80's). I think the second aerofiles photo of the swept wing plane sitting on the ground was also featured, because I recall seeing it as well.


Interesting to hear about the fixed main gear....I guess it would have taken too much work to make the gear retract into the new wing, especially if airflow patterns was the main reason for the experiment, and not speed improvements.

[First time Juke]

Re: Are there photos of "Shockwave"?

As many probably saw, this model was displayed in the "AeroChia" area of the Sport Class Hangar. I talked with a rep. from the company that seemed to know quite a bit about the project. He said it was more than 60% complete (including a racing engine). We'll see...

Looking forward to see that fly.

[Leo]

Re: Are there photos of "Shockwave"?

Also some good info in Tex Johnston's book.
Found this site looking for info on him, good stuff on Sky Ranger and other racers.

http://hometown.aol.com/conroeqb/wallingracesindex.html

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Are there photos of "Shockwave"?

(Old topic resurrected)

Well, it took me 2 years, but I finally found a picture of the other Bell L-39 with the shorted span swept-wing. This was the photo I saw way back in the 80's. Not QUITE a delta wing, but pretty close!

Here's pictures of both L-39s. The plane sitting on the ground is the photo I just located.