Tunica

[wingman]

Re: Tunica

Wayne --

We are certainly going to Tunica if it happens. Birgitta is now officially retired, so that gives us a lot more flexibility in both timing and finances. I suspect that we'll be camping -- either tenting or in the van.

Interesting that so many of us seem to regard a one-time event as a failure. From my selfish point of view as a fan, any race that actually happens is a success! And further, if everyone gets paid what they've been promised, then a one-time event is an unqualified success in my books. The mere fact that there's always been enough airplanes to hold the race even at the one-timers indicates to me that potential participants tend to agree. Overpromising and underdelivering is obviously bad for the sport, but the fact that an event was not repeated does not mean it was not worthwhile.

Neal

[Smee Again]

Re: Tunica

Andog62 - I don't believe anyone (myself included) has "condemned" the promoters or anyone else involved in this event. Mine was just a presentation of the facts regarding the historical status of every other air race venue in modern (post-Cleveland) times (and I even forgot Moosejaw, Sasketchewan). This is a fact which is impossible to ignore. They are air racing history and not part of air racing's present or future. Personally, I wish the Tunica folks all the luck in the world, but pardon me if I take a cautious approach to it's present and future status as a viable venue for Unlimited air racing. Is that alright with you?

Wingman - With regard to a one-off event, you are absolutely correct. The mere fact that the event actually came to fruition could be deemed a success. However, in the case of Mojave and Phoenix in particular, they were certainly intended as annual events. If Tunica is intended as a one-off event, it would seem to me that more time would be necessary to insure that everything were in order: facilities, air show, FAA waivers, insurance, etc., but most importantly, sponsorship dollars. What's the rush? And if Tunica plans on being an annual event, then why not begin with a demo race as I've suggested previously? No one seems to want to address that question.

[Andog62]

Re: Tunica

SMEE ME,

I understand the general jest of everyones comments and as true fans I absolutely believe everyone would like to have second racing event for unlimiteds and the festivites that follow.

I have known Jeff Landers and worked off and on with him for years. I took offense to the quote from Ron's post earlier, pasted below.

I still can't find out who Jeff Landers or Debra Sommer are. Anybody know anything about these folks (like, what do they know about the FAA, insurance, ASCAP/BMI, beer board, health department, corvus oil, ADI/Water , crash/rescue regulations, medevac chopper availabily/cost, local sheriffs department overtime rules, I could go on for 5 pages on stuff I never knew I'd have to deal with to put on an airshow, let alone a race.


As for historical facts I agree in principle of your statements and don't argue that. I don't think anyone of the parties involved in the Tunica Cup can and should ignore the past as a teacher.

Thanks,

Andog

[Mark K]

Re: Tunica

Like I said, there are no facts out on the event and you condemn the groups without any information, that is what is annoying. Yeah is a major undertaking but you have no facts...

We are 4 months away from the event and there still is no facts - that is quite annoying as well - and that in itself is a fact that makes one go . It does appear (at least on the surface) that someone is putting the cart before the horse . I'm not trying to be a stick-in-the-mud here... just being a realist.

[mayday51]

Re: Tunica

Almost always,no let me rephrase....

........often,marketing must be in place (read as "spin" if you must) to break inertia on a product (especially an event).

This or any event takes an un fathomable (? sp) amount of work and effort.
Racing a plane takes like amounts.

Lets hope it happens (in any form) and enjoy what-ever things develop from it.

....anual races....great! ....a one-shot deal......fine also !....


now to exit, ducking swinging purses......

[Ron101502]

Re: Tunica

sorry to offend - maybe the tunica folks will be successful and if so this rare bear fan sponsor will be able to drive to the races and sleep in his own bed! for those of you with rvs i think the hollywood casino has an rv park. again, i don''t mean to offend anyone-thanks for pointing out my offenses so i can apoligize.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Tunica

Just stepping in for a second.... NOT trying to moderate in any way!!!!

I don't think anyone is *trying* to offend anyone in what they say...

From what I see and think of this myself, I think it sort of almost offends some of us that anyone would even *try* to put on a race if, indeed, they fail in the end..

It's not because we don't want to see another race to go to, but the way I see it and I *think* is behind a lot of people's skepticism is that if they go all out, "promote and promise" and then fall on their faces, either with the promises or the promotions, in the end, it makes it THAT much harder for anyone else to put on a race.

I think everyone has felt the skepticism that the racers have, every time they hear of a proposed race.... they have heard it all after all....

I'm all for Tunica and I'm so wanting it to happen, I'm even in the early stages of making my plans to go... on the other hand, if it falls on its face and winds up costing me money for nothing, I'll be really hurt, both financially and mentally..

My position is a microcosm of the racers situation. If a team gets it all together, pulls in the crew, reserves the rooms, pays the travel expenses, rents cars, gets the plane, trailer, crew, goods to sell, the whole ball of wax back to MS and then it's a bomb, which has happened to them in the past.. it's not JUST one failed event, it's yet another straw on the camel's back for anyone else trying to get an event going.

If the racers go, one can only hope the purse is there as stated, security and all other planning issues are handled....

I know Cobra has traveled all the way across the country at least once, to attend events that were not sufficiently planned and so, came off as less than advertised, so I can understand his doubts.....

Anyway... I think this is a very healthy discussion, I just wanted to voice my opinion that I don't think anyone is intending to offend or be offended and I don't think anyone should take anything said in this conversation personally...

We're all on the same side here, some of us are "playing" devil's advocate, some of us are just plain in the "show me the money" state of mind.

Again, it's important to keep in mind, if this fails, particularly, if it fails and costs teams money for nothing, it hurts every other attempt at making another race, it's not just about Tunica, it's about the overall health of the sport..

I think that's what us "doubters" are concerned about...

Wayne

[Mark K]

Re: Tunica

I know Cobra has traveled all the way across the country at least once, to attend events that were not sufficiently planned and so, came off as less than advertised, so I can understand his doubts.....

Well - two incidences come to mind... lets first talk about Phoenix 96 - or the biggest non-racing event that was never advertised as such. Rare Bear & Strega showed up - but only did a few take-off power fly-bys for the crowd. No other unlimiteds showed up (maybe because they were still owed money from the previous year ) - and the T-6 races were no more then a dog and pony show. After scheduling the time off and paying for advance tickets, and hotel reservations - I left after only one day of the three days of "air racing".

The next was the Gathering of Mustangs & Legends in Florida. To make a long story short.... the people who were putting on the "event" were either unable to secure the field, failed to get the proper FAA waivers, failed to get the notams issued in a timely manner, or just failed to advertise the event as it was truly to be - the end result was about 30 minutes of taxiing around and take-offs and about 6 hours of shear boredom in the 90+ degree/humidity with no wind, no shade, and little to nothing in the way of drinks/food for the crowd. Yeah, it was neat to be there - but the price paid just wasn't even close to being worth it.

I just want to caution people that do plan on attending to go into this deal with your eyes wide open. You could be out a lot of money & vacation time for nothing more then a glorified airshow and maybe a few fly-bys of the racers. Then again, they could really pull a rabbit out of their hat and the air race happens as we all hope it could. However with only 4 months to go, and nothing in the way of facts & details I personally have some serious reservations... enough so that I will not plan on attending. I'd rather save my time & money for the sure thing.... Reno 2005

[Jason S.]

Re: Tunica

Hey Mark, that gift I promised you is on the way. I hope you like it.
Jason

[Unregistered]

Re: Tunica

Marrk,
Point well taken on the 96 "ARIZONA 500".....however the first year was well worth the trip .if you overlook the loss of the Super Corsair.
They gave it a good shot...and while the end was not the best
the organization that went into the start produced a very good show
dispite the cold & rain. Races good, and the night Pyro show of Sean Tucker outstanding..eeeven with the "Flying Elvises" JUmp Team doing a nite Jump into a Jimmy Buffet cobncert;
If the new guys on the block can come up with as good a first time
effort the show should be well worth the trip.
CHEERS!

[Ron101502]

Re: Tunica

I've already let it out-I'm a Rare Bear "Fan Sponsor", and I guess my big fear is that the promised purse doesn't exist and the resulting expenses with no reward (of course that assumes Rare Bear wins a paying finish if they run Tunica) causes the Bear to not run Reno. And it' easy for us fans to only look at the entertainment value of our favorite sport and forget about the fiscal realities, and speaking as a fan who has been on the "other side" of this equation, sometimes my prior experiences give me a somewhat negative (if hopefull) attitude regarding the Tunica race. I don't mean to demean or disparage anyone, I plan on being there if it happens and I really would like Tunica to be an exciting annual event. Sorry if I went overboard in expressing my concerns. First beer is on me if we meet at Tunica!

Ron Henning

[Unregistered]

Re: Tunica

Pictures of the area aren't really necessary. The area is flat - delta farmland. June isn't really that hot here. We usually don't get the hot humid weather until July or August.

[Mark K]

Re: Tunica

Marrk, Point well taken on the 96 "ARIZONA 500".....however the first year was well worth the trip .if you overlook the loss of the Super Corsair.

Agreed - I really enjoyed 95 (didn't make it the first year). Kinda went south in a fast hurry after that - very disappointing .

Speaking of disappointing & not-so-disappointing - even though the 1st Gathering of Mustangs & Legends in Kissamee didn't turn out well for the "heavy metal" fans out there like myself... the next one promises to be a much better experience. All of the shortcommings of the first one have been addressed and corrected. Adding to that it's going to be produced in association with RARA (who has shown year after year that they know how to put on a great show for the fans) - it's a forgone conclution that this IS an event that will be worth the price, and then some

[MLenoch]

Re: Tunica

Speaking of disappointing & not-so-disappointing - even though the 1st Gathering of Mustangs & Legends in Kissamee didn't turn out well for the "heavy metal" fans out there like myself... the next one promises to be a much better experience. All of the shortcommings of the first one have been addressed and corrected.

Gee, what was disappointing at the first one? Just curious. Thx.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Tunica

Vlado,

I know you have a tight schedule and a family, is there any chance we'll see you at the '06 Gathering at Stead?

Would love to see Moonbean again!

Wayne