When did it happen?

[shadow]

Re: When did it happen?

Hi John, yep, this is exactly why I'm "whining" on about this...

We FEW.. we VERY few hard-core air race fans from the old days are the ones who are really wanting the warbird and warbird based racers..

To a NEW race fan... I heard some exit poll stuff from a recent air race and the Unlimiteds were hardly on the radar.. As a hard-core, die-hard BIG iron fan, this might surprise you.. did me!

I'm a lurker, but I had to speak out to this. I am 26yrs old. I think that makes me a young'n. I went to Reno for the first time this year. If I had know about it earlier, had the means earlier, I would have attended every single one I could. I would have been sitting at the top of the bleachers with snow flakes falling on my head with the biggest ****-eating grin since Neil Armstrong made it to the moom. Watching anything fly by on the course gets all the hairs on the back of my neck to raise a little. Watching the Unlimiteds go wingtip to wingtip into a corner makes the hairs on the back of my neck snap to attention.

The Unlimiteds are Warbirds, they are our heritage, our history, they are what kept our nation safe when we needed them the most, they are the wings of freedom which carried the hopes and dreams of America.

There is something special about the Warbirds that can never be captured by any other racer.

Sergio.

[Randy Haskin]

Re: When did it happen?

I still think it's inevitable that there will be some kind of merge between the unlimiteds and the sport class. As the warbirds start to go away, and the sport racers get faster and faster, the line will be blurred.

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Re: When did it happen?

I don't know about everybody else but I save up so I can go to this ONE race each year. This is my only vacation. I can't afford to follow 2 or 3 races and probably could not get the time off or pay for the longer trips either.
I suspect there are quite a few fans out there that are in the same boat. So that raises the question: are there enough fans that could support a series of races?

So if you can't go to all the races then it's a bad idea? Yes there are enough fans to go to other events. Seeing how the Pima Air Museum is in Tuscon I would think aviation is pretty strong in AZ. It's about marketing... If Landers has better marketing he WILL get the draw. If he gets the top runners the fans will come. Think of how many fans from the east coast that amy not be able to afford Reno every year, but they can make Tunica. Or an aircraft owner like Ron Buccarelli who has his race plane in Florida. He can race his Mustang in Tunica and race Rare Bear in Reno. I leaves people with options. I also think it will make RARA come around and be a little more flexable(to put it nice and not start another pissing match).

[BadIdea]

Re: When did it happen?

You guys are bringing up some good issues.
What do you think about the following.

Orphan Racers:
With the new minimum weight rule, what happens to the racers under construction that don't meet the rule?
All that money and hard work down the drain?
That can't leave a good taste for those owners.


Vacation time:
Not only do fans take their only vacation to be at the races.
Many crew member are volunteers and also use their vacation to be at the races.

[Leo]

Re: When did it happen?

The more venues the better as far as I 'm concerned. I might not make it to any but Reno, but does a Nascar fan physically go to all the races? does a ball fan go to every game, even away games?
I'll still follow it as closely as possible with even more excitement, building to Reno, just means more posters for the collection!

[Air Race Addict]

Re: When did it happen?

The more venues the better as far as I 'm concerned. I might not make it to any but Reno, but does a Nascar fan physically go to all the races? does a ball fan go to every game, even away games?
I'll still follow it as closely as possible with even more excitement, building to Reno, just means more posters for the collection!

If your better half will give you the wall space, HAH! (Of course that's assuming you have one of those)
Bill

[Leo]

Re: When did it happen?

No, she won't!
That's what the garage and office are for.
She's right tho. The house would look like a hangar.
At work, I'm in a cube again for now and there is not a sguare inch of wall space left! The joke here is my next office will have to be a big one just to hold my junk...
It's a terrible, insidious disease.

[Air Race Addict]

Re: When did it happen?

No, she won't!
That's what the garage and office are for.
She's right tho. The house would look like a hangar.
At work, I'm in a cube again for now and there is not a sguare inch of wall space left! The joke here is my next office will have to be a big one just to hold my junk...
It's a terrible, insidious disease.

Yeah, I know what you mean Leo. I have posters stacked up like cord wood on a shelf in the garage. Now, if I could only find the time to insulate and dry wall the garage, I'd really have a display area. I have managed to put a couple of my Reno momentos up at work. But, I can't get too crazy.

[Leo]

Re: When did it happen?

Luckily my garage is finished, but the air race stuff shares wall space with the car stuff. The work space IS crazy, but no one complaines about my "flair" as long. They even contribute, I've gotten several prize posters, pictures and even a couple of parts from them over the years!

[chuck]

Re: When did it happen?

Will the Warbird based racers go away in time, or will their popularity insure that they will continue even if it means building replicas (as with Yak 3s, FW 190s, and I have even heard that P-51 replicas are in the process of being built)? Maybe the critical factor is the availability of powerplants. Sometimes I hear there are plenty of a certain engine out there and at other times I hear they are about gone. Roush is building parts. Could a complete engine be that far behind? There are people out there with the $.

[MarkB.]

Re: When did it happen?

Guys,

I know this is a long thread but one more OPINION wouldn't hurt.

Who needs sponsors for the planes? Every single one of the warbird owners, with the possible exception of Lyle, is a very wealth, successful business person capable of underwriting their own program. THEY DON'T NEED US, the fans or the sponsors. There is absolutely no chance that warbird ownership, even of highly modified race planes will ever be anything but the province of the extremely wealthy. A sponsor for these extremely wealthy men only serves to defray costs which most, if not all of them, were prepared to assume in the first place.

What is needed is sponsorship of the race or races. Only when the prize money is of such magnitude to entice development will such development occur. I doesn't take an economics major to figure out that someone might invest $500,000 for a crack at a $1,000,000 first prize. The long term development will not be on warbirds although some initial development might be. There is no economic need for a large displacement piston engine nor is their any need to develop fancy- schmancy parts for a Merlin or a Wright if you're not operating it at race settings. There is no "real world" application of technological development to a World War 2 fighter or its powerplant. Thus, money is the only enticer.

Wayne, I think the answer to the question that runs through out this thread, striped of sentimentality for the really cool old planes, is to radically increase prize money and let the Unlimiteds be passed by sport class-type developments pursuing the money. It will take years, but it will happen.

Now, will the attorneys let Coke or Pepsi (as examples) sponsor the races?

Not in a million years.

[laminar]

Re: When did it happen?

I agree completely.

Thats whats so cool about the sport class. For the first time since the 1930s technology proven on the course could actually be worth something somewhere besides reno. The sport class is the future of the sport if it will have one.

[MarkB.]

Re: When did it happen?

Where I was headed was that in order to have a million dollar first prize, the total purse would have to be many times that. I don't know what first place at Reno (or Tunica) was worth this year, but if somebody does, they could compute how much money would be required to increase the award for all places such that First was worth a million bucks. Only some large corporations have that kind of money. And remember that's just the purse for the unlimiteds.

The Pepsi/Coke remark was not to disparage the Tunica sponsorship but to point out that if you had the "Pepsi Air Race at Tunica", where Pepsi put up several million dollars of purse money, the lawyers are going to swallow their gum about liability issues in the event of an accident.

Golf tournaments and similar events with large payouts raise money for charities after the purse has been paid. I just don't see the economics for air racing, even with multiple events, as having the money to pay anything but the purse to, as things stand now, a bunch of guys who don't need the money anyway.

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Re: When did it happen?

Ok today I was out on a 3 hour training ride on my road bike and came up with something I THINK. Suffering for three hours at a heart rate of 150-185 make you try and think the pain away. The only thing is that RARA must work together with the other promotor.

First you make all three races a series with Reno being the championship as it always has. You get a major title sponsor for all three races with a large purse for the champion of each class, and a smaller purse for each race that is five deep. At the first race you have qualifying just like at Reno. Fast airplane has pole. After the race finish however your finish dictates how you start at the next race which is Tunica right. With the expense of going to Mississippi being so high, and because there would be no qualifying you could make it a three day event. Less money spent on travel, less time the crews have to take off, and less money spent on lodging. Then comes Reno the finals of the series and the "world championship". High points in each class get the whole series champ purse for that class.
Why I THINK this would work. You have a few ways to be the series champ. Throw all the money in world into your plane to TRY and dominate, run consistant for all three races and hope for enough points to win the overall, or throttle back for the first two then pin it at Reno. Any one of the right combo could get your team the overall purse.
For the teams that don't want to do all the race you could show up kick ass and mess up the other teams points hunt. This would make it real racing with an overall goal at the end. Without messing with Reno's program that everyone loves so much.
As far as TV goes you could kill two birds with one stone. You approach the Discovery Channel(they spent 14 mil last year on Lance Armstrong's team), Military Channel, or Speed Channel to not only be your big money sponsor, but televise the races also. That would give many teams the pull they need to get a major sponsor for their airplane too. I know there are some holes, but I bonked coming back into Truckee.

[Tin Man]

Re: When did it happen?

Or you get the IMAX movie people to film a movie about Reno and put it in theaters for all to see, or how about getting a Reno Racing video game to distribute. or?
Tom
Northern California