"Editorial" Outsourcing - Alaska Airlines: Saving Money

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: "Editorial" Outsourcing - Alaska Airlines: Saving Money

PHOTO LINK

Looking at the photos of the hole after they got back with it, seems strange that on the right side, the "tin" seems folded in quite a lot.

Assuming that a pressure differential with higher pressure inside the structure would have a hard time bending something in it would seem that the ground guy's statement that he didn't notice anything much would be a vast understatement!

Unless someone rolled the sheet in after they landed ??? there would have had to have been a pretty noticeable "dent" in the airplane...

That guy needs to get fried on this one.. *if* it was that bad and he didn't say anything, that would be GROSS negligence and subject to far more discipline than a simple "mistake"...

Any IDIOT would have had to know that *something* bad was gonna happen here...

Thinking of what *could* have happened to these folks, scary!

Wayne

[Randy Haskin]

Re: "Editorial" Outsourcing - Alaska Airlines: Saving Money

Unless someone rolled the sheet in after they landed ??? there would have had to have been a pretty noticeable "dent" in the airplane...

Looks to me as if the ram-air pressure in flight caused the piece on the trailing edge of the hole to fold in...

I can also see how it would be tough to see a scrape like that with those huge graphics on the side of the fuselage...not really a uniform surface to look at.

[speeddemon]

Re: "Editorial" Outsourcing - Alaska Airlines: Saving Money

I can also see how it would be tough to see a scrape like that with those huge graphics on the side of the fuselage...not really a uniform surface to look at.

Oh, I get it. That's sarcasm! :-)

[Air Race Addict]

Re: "Editorial" Outsourcing - Alaska Airlines: Saving Money

It would seem that the ground guy's statement that he didn't notice anything much would be a vast understatement!

First of all Wayne, thanks for the link.

That guy needs to get fried on this one.. *if* it was that bad and he didn't say anything, that would be GROSS negligence and subject to far more discipline than a simple "mistake"...
Any IDIOT would have had to know that *something* bad was gonna happen here...

If you look carefully (Randy), you can see that the doofus tagged the airplane pretty good with the cart. The paint scrape marks are pretty obvious in the blue paint, (well, maybe to me having seen it before on other aircraft). And with that in mind, he should be charged with reckless endangerment and negligent something.

Thinking of what *could* have happened to these folks, scary!
Wayne

Yeah, like a co-worker said, "Imagine getting off the plane in SEA and having the gate agent tell you to go ahead to another gate to get on another Alaska plane!" Personally, if I knew what happened, I would have no problem doing that. I just don't know how fast they were able to determine the cause. The whole situation could have turned into something way more ugly, but, you also have to realize these aircraft are pretty freakin robust. Remember the 737 that did a pop-top trick in Hawaii? That was the ultimate display of how strong American built aircraft are and have been since the beginning of WWII. They can suffer some pretty traumatic damage and still fly if the main control surfaces are still attached and you have some power. Agreed? A B-52 can fly without a vertical, an Airbus can't apparently, an F-15 can fly with one wing, a B-17 could fly with holes everywhere, etc., etc. etc.

Oh yeah, I didn't touch on the media coverage in my tirade yesterday. This would fairly well complete four corners of the one-dimensional pathetic box I live in The two reporters from the Seattle paper are STAFF reporters that obviously were going for the sensationalism of the event as opposed to the facts. They must be experts since they live within 100 miles of a major aircraft manufacturer and they probably see airplanes flying all over the place around Seattle. They interviewed some guy claiming to be a pilot, (did they see his license?), who was on/in every stupid report I saw. Hope he enjoys his 15 minutes of fame. I suppose he'll make it on the tomorrow show with katy cowbell as the latest castaway from survivor Anyways, I digress, the guy first says and the reporters make it sound like the aircraft went into an uncontrolled dive and that everyone was getting ready to face their Creator. I am sure the flight crew went "what the hell was that?" donned their masks, did everything right like they are trained, (I have no doubt they knew there was some kind of a hole in the fuselage), and if that so called PILOT had a brain or experience, he would have realized and could have felt that the aircraft was under control from the very beginning. I would be willing to bet that the autopilot didn't even hickup.
I am not doubting that the passengers were frightened by the experience. Hell, the rubber jungle is frightening to me when it is actuated purposely! Anyone sitting in the back (as Brad alluded to), would have been, if they were just your average flyer. Okay, I'm done ME PLEEEEEZE! HAH!

[speeddemon]

Re: "Editorial" Outsourcing - Alaska Airlines: Saving Money

I'm tellin' ya.

Bill Clark for President in '08!

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Re: "Editorial" Outsourcing - Alaska Airlines: Saving Money

Ummm...hate to stir the pot on this one; but, as we all know, it is the pilot that is responsible for ensuring the airworthiness of an aircraft before flight. So, what happened to the preflight walk around? From the pic's I saw, the paint was pretty scraped up and the damage should have been clearly visible during a walkaround. This isn't to excuse the baggage handler's failure to report the damage, just a reminder as to who is responsible for ensuring the aircraft is ready for flight before climbing in.

Ummm.... Isn't the pilot already done with that while the plane is being loaded? I know that most airliners I have ever been on the Pilot and FO are already strapped in while my bags are STILL being loaded. Get a window seat next time and watch. The "THROWERS" are still down there loading. So should the pilot or FO get out and check again? Boy and we piss and moan about the delays now!!!
I just met a guy over X-mas that was a load supervisor at AW and when he told me how much he made after being there for over four years made me almost cry. It's just wrong to pay somebody with our lives in there hands sooooooooo little. The Wal-Mart/Microsoft effect is in every industry these days. Even aviation, and that is scary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[First time Juke]

Re: "Editorial" Outsourcing - Alaska Airlines: Saving Money

I'll step in for Randy on this one, Juke. It was actually two French-made Roland missiles fired in quick succession. Randy popped a bunch of countermeasures, pickled the ordinance, and did a lomcevak that would have made Art Scholl proud....and fortunately both missiles went for the chaff.

I told my brother about this Randy's encounter with Rolands. He said he has seen similar video of a pilot tackling with 3 missiles ( Rolands ? ). He was very interested to see the tape if you have it and willing to share it ?!
Now he is in an operative job regarding air defence. He was a lieutenant colonel in NATO's KFOR-operation in Kosovo.

[dclemans]

Re: "Editorial" Outsourcing - Alaska Airlines: Saving Money

Getting a bit more off the original topic....

It gets harder and harder for me to see how you can make enough money to afford a family. My dad was a mechanic at TWA's LAX base for 20 years (1960's to 1980's); he took early retirement roughly deregulation started and salaries started trending downwards. A bit later, he spent a few more years with America West in Phoenix.

While us kids (total of 5) were growing up, things were sometimes tight, but overall fine. It's hard to think what somebody in the same positions today would have to do to raise five children.

[Blue Foam]

Re: "Editorial" Outsourcing - Alaska Airlines: Saving Money

Just FYI...

In the time I spent at Air Cal, every single pressurization problem was traced to bad door sealing. About half of these were from the baggage door sills being bent by the baggage handlers driving their conveyor belt bumpers into the side of the aircraft.

My co-workers told me that in the last ten years of operation, only one pressurization controller had a verifyable fault. We averaged one pressurization discrepency per week on 36 B737s with an average utilization of 13 hours/day.

Pre-flight is performed once per day by the maintenance crew doing the RON. In the military, it is the Plane Captain's responsibility. Economics and time constraints that give us modern, cheap air travel dictate that the pilot get in the cockpit long before other people stop touching his aircraft.

Be afraid.... be very afraid.

[Apteryx]

Re: "Editorial" Outsourcing - Alaska Airlines: Saving Money

Be afraid...be very afraid

Eric-
No kidding, I worked security and slung bags back in the 70's with little or no training. I can't imagine what it's like now, when English is often a second language, at BEST. Some of the stories my mechanic friends have related are equally as scary. I'm truly amazed, that there aren't more incident/accidents, then there are.

Paul

[Stevo]

Re: "Editorial" Outsourcing - Alaska Airlines: Saving Money

...In the military, it is the Plane Captain's responsibility. Economics and time constraints that give us modern, cheap air travel dictate that the pilot get in the cockpit long before other people stop touching his aircraft.

True, the A/C (Aircraft Commander) has ultimate responsibility on a military aircraft (at least Air Force), but that does not mean he or she does, or even looks at, everything on the jet. Heck, in the C-5 world the A/C doesn't even do a walk around. The Flight Engineers and Loadmasters are the ones that show to the aircraft early, preflight, load cargo and basically ensures the jet is ready to go.
And as far as touching the jet... maybe being aircrew this doesn't count, but we are sometimes still doing lots of things that could be hazardous to flight even while we are taxing.