Team 51 Unlimited air racing

[Air Race Addict]

Re: Team 51 Unlimited air racing

Bill,
pick me! Danny has done some flight testing as well, but maybe nothing quiet like this. I think I'd probably recommend Dave Morss for the job.

Also I'd recommend the Luvara boys for the telemetry system. They've really got some pretty cool capabilities. Unfortunately I'm not close enough to help with the build, but would volunteer services when you guys get to Reno if you need somebody to sale T-shirts, posters, etc.

Keep the pics coming. Do you know what's the status of the engine being rebuilt? % complete? Thanks, Brian W.

Hey Brian,
um, I won't be picking the test pilot, but I definitely will place your name in the file. I was thinking along the lines of Dave Morss as well. I don't know if Murdo or Danny have had any contact with him, but I think he would be a great candidate. And he has some recent experience with Mustangs and Allison Mustangs in particular, HAH! Just send some contact info and we will put your name in the data base, (that's fancy talk for contacts file)
As far as telemetry, I think Murdo actually had a short discussion and demo with one of the Luvara boys in the hangar at Reno last year about that very subject. They will definitely be contacted when we get to the point of designing a telemetry setup for the aircraft. We just haven't decided how in depth we want to get.
As far as the first motor goes, Peter is working away at it and will be coming over to Spokane in the next month, I think, to meet with Murdo and any other team members on site, (me).
These are all good questions, and ones that I hope to have good clear answers to in the very near future. And I will get some more photos ASAP, hopefully next week.
Bill

[GeeBeeZ1931]

Re: Team 51 Unlimited air racing

oops ,link didn't work, first time trying go to cameronaircraft.com something new is on the site

So glad to see that you(and so far RARA)saw the light about what engine to use in the plane. It will be great to finally see a hopped up Allison instead of another Merlin grenade.

I go to Reno to see the piston engines hopped up and running hard and if things switch over to stinking diesel burners then I stop going to Reno!

[GeeBeeZ1931]

Re: As The Prop Turns - Dodging Rocks...

I'm sure I'll catch at least a little flak for saying this but....

I think our best chance of EVER seeing a year with more than maybe two, perhaps three Unlimited races (a series, so-to-speak) would be to have an airplane such as this with TURBINE power....

Or, allow "QEC" "kit" re-engining of existing racers.

Think of it, kick the tires and light the fire and go racing. At the end of the day, the engine is still healthy, you fly her home and get ready for the next one..

Pipe Dream?? Probably..

I LOVE the smell of high octane and the sound of the big piston power as much as anyone.... but I truly enjoy CLOSE competition even more.

Consistent CLOSE racing, excitement building from race to race... a year where I'm busy covering ONLY Air Racing... wow.. what a dream, in a pipe or wherever..

Just how much of the sound we hear when a racer goes by at full tilt is highly stressed prop and how much is highly stressed engine?

How different would a turbine powered prop beating the hell out of the sky sound?

Just a thought...

THIS is an exciting project, whatever turns the prop though!

OK, here's the flak

Since it looks like yet another Mustang.............ho hum. I for one get sick from the stink of diesel exhaust and it doesn't matter if you call it jet fuel, it still STINKS!
If someone wants to have a "close" ho hum race of champions style racing series with diesel burners somewhere else besides Reno; fine. Just not at Reno where the real races are.

[T. Adams]

Re: Team 51 Unlimited air racing

Yes, jet fuel stinks like crazy. Now on the other hand, racing gas, now that has a great smell. I can smell that suff the instant a muscle car drives by me on the highway.

[jarrodeu]

Re: Team 51 Unlimited air racing

I would take the smell of diesel over gas anyday.

Jarrod

[CMW]

Re: As The Prop Turns - Dodging Rocks...

OK, here's the flak

Since it looks like yet another Mustang.............ho hum. I for one get sick from the stink of diesel exhaust and it doesn't matter if you call it jet fuel, it still STINKS!
If someone wants to have a "close" ho hum race of champions style racing series with diesel burners somewhere else besides Reno; fine. Just not at Reno where the real races are.

Let's get one thing straight. Nothing will ever replace the sight, sound or smell of a screaming merlin or allison in a clean aluminum airframe and as long is there are engines and airframes left, they will be racing at reno. That sight, smell, and sound are what drives people to keep coming back year after year. But this class has been getting slower and more depleted over the years and I think it is time to do something to spice things up.

I fail to see the harm in letting somebody enter a turbo prop into the competition. I agree with Wayne in that it doesn't matter what is driving the prop - as long as it is a prop. I think most Reno fans would agree that the jet class is boring and a huge part of it is the smell/sound/ vision of a gaggle of jets going past is pretty bland or as you said -"stinks". But isn't anybody curious to see what people will come up with from a design standpoint when given a few less restrictions in the unlimiteds?

As I recall, the fastest propeller driven aircraft is the TU-95 Russian Bear with 4 sets of 18' diameter counterrotating props driven by 14,000 hp turbines achieving 575 mph. The sound of the propellers alone is supposed to be deafening. How amazing would it be to see some propeller head bolt one of those engine pods onto something heavily modified and take it for a ride? It would be the loudest, fastest, craziest propeller driven thing you've ever seen. Wouldn't you drive to Reno to see that? At least give somebody a chance to build and race something out of the ordinary and then if nobody cares, we'll go back to pistons only.

Just my two cents.

[Red]

Re: Team 51 Unlimited air racing

I'm all for the turbo-props running, but not with the recips.

Part of the allure of the Unlimiteds IMHO is the on the edge nail biting that goes along with "how far will he push it before it blows?". No one runs flat out out, so it is always a chess game to see how far they will push.

Turbo-props would be cool, but they are too reliable (is that a bad thing? ) and would probably turn into in IROC sort of thing. I would still love to see it though.

The Unlimiteds are what they are, good or bad. They are Reno. If the Unlimiteds go away as we know them now, the tp's may race in their place with similar speeds, but they will never replace them. YMMV

Red

[CMW]

Re: Team 51 Unlimited air racing

I agree with all you say, but why no recips? I am thinking precious metal on steroids.

[jarrodeu]

Re: Team 51 Unlimited air racing

I agree with all you say, but why no recips? I am thinking precious metal on steroids.

There's nothing wrong with an unlimited being juiced, several are.

Jarrod

[Red]

Re: Team 51 Unlimited air racing

I mean TP's and recip's running both in the same class as "Unlimiteds"

Red

[SCEPTER]

Re: Team 51 Unlimited air racing

I would take the smell of diesel over gas anyday.

Jarrod

they go fast too...dodge ram vs.mustang

[DPK2]

Re: Team 51 Unlimited air racing

A separate class for the turboprops would be ok I guess. But, if that is the case why don't we just take a bunch of Air Tractors and race them as some have suggested. It would be a close IROC type race.

I would hate to see TPs replace the existing unlimiteds. I would probably quit following air racing if that is the case. The big piston engines are one of the reasons I love air racing. As Red said, part of the cool thing about the piston engines is the fact that they are modified, and being pushed way beyond original limits. I guess this appeals to the hotrodder in me. I guess it would be similar to drag racing in that the jet cars are cool and fun to watch for a couple of runs but after that the similarity and consistency becomes boring.

David

[Fence Sence]

Re: Team 51 Unlimited air racing

Back on the Team 51 thread:

I can't wait to see this thing fly. An Allison powered composite 51. BAD A$$. That's the hottest thing since sunburn. I'm glad someone is thinking ahead. That is the best thing that can happen to air racing right there. Looks like a 51, drives like a Honda. Look fellas, at some point we're going to run out of our beloved P-51's and Merlins. At some point we're going to have to accept the fact that these things can't last forever. Christ, they already have. Your talking about 60 year old aircraft. It's the 21st century dudes, come on. Most of them should be flown in for static display. But a composite Allison 51, right at the minimum weight. that is the future and the future now. Actually it was yesterday but I won't tell.

Now, so far as turbo props, . If it flies and they race them, I'll watch. However, I would like to see Unlimited Piston and Unlimited Turbo classes.

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Team 51 Unlimited air racing

I too would like to see turbines at Reno, but not against the recips. That would be like allowing cars to have the option of using turboshaft engines in Nascar! Very soon everyone would have one under the hood!

Turboprops have too much of an advantage due to high power reliability and power-to-weight issues. Once a few TBs had won championships, everyone who races seriously would switch to turbine power, and the piston powerplants would disappear from the event altogether far sooner(except for some stockers who race just for the fun of flying).

Give them their own class and run exibition races until there are enough TB-prop racers to run a proper race. Only that would be fair to WWII aircraft owners who don't want to make the major mods necessary to switch to kerosene burners.

Besides, what type of motor an unlimited uses may not make much difference sound-wise on the track, but I still love the sound, smoke and vibration felt through my feet of a big recip starting-up on the ground. That's a big part of the pleasure I get from the warbirds. Give me a big 4360 at start-up any day!

.

[matt]

Re: Team 51 Unlimited air racing

A separate class for the turboprops would be ok I guess. But, if that is the case why don't we just take a bunch of Air Tractors and race them as some have suggested. It would be a close IROC type race.

I would hate to see TPs replace the existing unlimiteds. I would probably quit following air racing if that is the case. The big piston engines are one of the reasons I love air racing. As Red said, part of the cool thing about the piston engines is the fact that they are modified, and being pushed way beyond original limits. I guess this appeals to the hotrodder in me. I guess it would be similar to drag racing in that the jet cars are cool and fun to watch for a couple of runs but after that the similarity and consistency becomes boring.

David

so what abort classers? because that's what's gonna happen. noone in the unlimiteds has really pushed the limits of aircraft design, or invented new technology, for many years. the sport class has, which is why in it's 7 years of existence it's gold race winning speed has advanced 60 mph and will probably continue to get faster.

why not pitch turbines against recips in both unlimited and sport classes? what we would see is either the recip planes get a LOT faster or die as a viable raceplane, necessity is the mother of all invention, if the recips want to continue to compete with the turbines they would need to break new ground and try new things (or resurrect old technology that was long ago put on the shelf). remember guys, the reason air racing was started was to advance the technology of aviation, there is absolutely no reason it shouldn't still be doing so.

air racing was never intended to be a hobby.