Team 51 Unlimited air racing

[Unregistered]

Re: Team 51 Unlimited air racing

IMHO if you race turbines against recips you will lose a large amount of your fan base. Look what happened to Unlimited Hydros. They lack alot of luster for me personally. I have not gone in several years because of this.

Having said that, I think a separate unlimited turbo prop class is a great idea. That way us motorheads can still have the sounds and smells we like. Root for our favorite racers that we have been following for years.

At the same time we are starting something new that could be a basis for the future of air racing. I am not blind to the fact that the days of racing priceless warbirds is coming to an end. Probably sooner than later. Just don't pull their dignity by making them lose against turbo props.

Steve Hixson

[Red]

Re: Team 51 Unlimited air racing

air racing was never intended to be a hobby.

Thats a riot! Not a hobby? Then what is it? Last time I checked, no one was making real money at it. It may be a job for some people, but by far and away it costs the team owners to play.

Red

[2101]

Re: Team 51 Unlimited air racing

If your worried about turbines being to reliable,turn me loose with one.That prop govenor screw sure would be easy to back off.Three percent rpm is about 10% power increase.Find someone who knows his way around the old fuel controller(preferabley wearing a pith helmet)and boost the fuel flow.Or just piggyback onto the fuel manifolds and introduce so more high pressure fuel.Surely the nozzles could be enlarged.What about water injection preferabley after the compressor section.If the gear box is limiting out or the prop is,can we size and place the tail pipe for max thrust?Then might just want to trim the t wheels down or leave one out all together.Did the hot section get a bit fried?An all nighter to go thru the hot section.Piston engines have great reliability(and usually never completely)until someone figured out how to pump them up.Turbines are really no different except when they blow its usually really spectacular.Surely that redline is just a rough guideline.Turbines would be great,almost no cooling drag,compact size low weight.Prop is still a limiting factor.And how about Testor for the sponsor of the composite mustang?

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Team 51 Unlimited air racing

remember guys, the reason air racing was started was to advance the technology of aviation, there is absolutely no reason it shouldn't still be doing so.

I thought the Reno Air Races were started so plane owners could enjoy flying their warbirds low and fast in a legal setting and to see who was the better pilot....fooled me.

[matt]

Re: Team 51 Unlimited air racing

Thats a riot! Not a hobby? Then what is it? Last time I checked, no one was making real money at it. It may be a job for some people, but by far and away it costs the team owners to play.

Red

noones arguing the fact that it costs an arm and a leg, such is the price of living a dream, i suppose what i should've said was "it shouldn't be a hobby". because that's what it has become and why it will die long before it's time because noone wants to make anything better. if there's a known problem that limits how fast or even how reliable the plane is, that is x amount of dollars to fix more often than not it will go unchanged because it is viewed as a hobby.

thought the Reno Air Races were started so plane owners could enjoy flying their warbirds low and fast in a legal setting and to see who was the better pilot....fooled me.

who said anything about the reno air races? i meant air racing as whole, since the very first official race at rheims, france in 1909. besides that who can tell who's the better pilot when there's a 200 mph desparity between the fastest and the slowest unlimited qualifiers?

i have no problem with guys who want to come out and race their stockers, i think it's awesome, but atleast make room for people who actually want to improve the technology.

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Team 51 Unlimited air racing

who said anything about the reno air races? i meant air racing as whole, since the very first official race at rheims, france in 1909.

I realize that, but what applied nearly 100 years ago when flying machines were still a new and puzzling invention doesn't really apply to air racing today.

Innovation and new technology in aircraft is a wonderful thing, but it's a by-product of competition, not the reason for it's existance. People race now because they LOVE doing it.

besides that who can tell who's the better pilot when there's a 200 mph desparity between the fastest and the slowest unlimited qualifiers?

Between the fastest and slowest, I agree you can't. But there's a lot of unlimiteds that are fairly close in performance (Rare Bear, Dago, Strega, etc...).

Sometimes the winner is determined by how well one flys the pylons that makes the final diffference between 1st and 2nd, and not just who has more ponies under the cowl or the slickest wings.

i have no problem with guys who want to come out and race their stockers, i think it's awesome, but atleast make room for people who actually want to improve the technology.

There's plenty of room without pitting pistons against turbines. Look at the Pond Racer, Tsunami, Miss Ashley II, Vendetta, Stiletto.....

The point I take is, those conducting the races must make sure to provide for fair competition to keep racing teams interested. I don't believe letting turbines race against recips would be fair to those using the latter, and I certainly don't believe giving turboprops their own racing class would supress new technology development in the least.

[Randy Haskin]

Re: Team 51 Unlimited air racing

i have no problem with guys who want to come out and race their stockers, i think it's awesome, but atleast make room for people who actually want to improve the technology.

Make room? You're implying that there are guys out there with time, money, and desire to push "the technology" but are being c*ck blocked out of the race field by guys running their stock warbirds in the Bronze.

Puhleaze, Matt.

How about this...there's not anyone with any cubic dollars who wants to make any changes. When there is money and a will to do it, things will change. Until then, same-same.

[MerlinV12]

Re: Team 51 Unlimited air racing

Would be cool to see few unlimited planes whit twin turbo's for replacement of the superchargers
Turbo work better than superchargers and the will spool up really fast on big engine like a merlin v12

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Re: Team 51 Unlimited air racing

Thats a riot! Not a hobby? Then what is it? Last time I checked, no one was making real money at it. It may be a job for some people, but by far and away it costs the team owners to play.

Red

Sure it's a hobby. But if a hobby can kill you I think you better approach it like someone's life depends on it... Because it does! That is the point I think Matt is trying to make on that subject.

[speeddemon]

Re: Team 51 Unlimited air racing

Would be cool to see few unlimited planes whit twin turbo's for replacement of the superchargers
Turbo work better than superchargers and the will spool up really fast on big engine like a merlin v12

As was discussed the other day on the other message board, Merlins don't take to being turbocharged as well as the Allison.

Besides, ever seen a turbocharged 'V' engine in an airplane? Ugly, because the turbochargers hang out. Lots of drag for a race plane. Just ask Kerch...they tried it when he was working on JRS's Tipsy Miss back in the day. Lefty and Gary took the turbochargers OUT of their P-38's.

[Fence Sence]

Re: Team 51 Unlimited air racing

I gotta tell ya, this has been a good thread to read with the young bucks, with all their piss and vinigar, all fired up about innovation and change. Then you have the "old" bucks, part thinking their way through it and part lettin' it happen. For some reason it has really come out here. You have to love both. Reminds me of a joke.

Two bulls standing at the top of a hill. The first bull says,"hey Dad, let's run down there and screw one of the them cows." The father says "No son, let's walk down there and screw them all."

One has the idea and the other has the plan. It's a beautiful thing.

I like the idea of turbo charged Allisons as a primary focus of advancing new Unlimited class air frames. Just need to figure out a way to wedge them in there to keep the air frame clean. That way you can keep piston powered props turning. Someone just needs to prove a new design on a minimized budget can be a reliable winner. At that point we'll see a few more, then a few more after that, and so on and so on. The technology is there. Unfortunately there aren't enough people with, as Haskin so elliquently put, cubic dollars and interest to make it happen over night. But fear not young bucks, one day you will be the old bucks making the calls on what happens to this sport. So long as you make sure you have the cubic dollars when you get there.

[speeddemon]

Re: Team 51 Unlimited air racing

These young whippersnappers and their newfangled ideas. Why back in MY day, we didn't have these TUR-BO-Chargers. We had a big rubber band, and we wound it and wound it and wound it. And sometimes it broke, and sometimes the prop would slip and cut off our fingers...but we LIKED IT.

We didn't have these combustion EN-GINES. We used steam. And while one pilot was flying, the other was shovelling coal into the fire. And it was hot, and we all got burned...but we LIKED IT.

In MY DAY there were REAL flying machines, and they were as tough and rugged as those of us who flew them. You young fellers today have no idea how good you have it. Ungrateful punks....

[SCEPTER]

Re: Team 51 Unlimited air racing

Two bulls standing at the top of a hill. The first bull says,"hey Dad, let's run down there and screw one of them cows." The father says "No son, let's walk down there and screw them all."

:

LOL...my granfather used to tell me that joke.

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Team 51 Unlimited air racing

God bless grandfathers...

Would be cool to see few unlimited planes whit twin turbo's for replacement of the superchargers
Turbo work better than superchargers and the will spool up really fast on big engine like a merlin v12

If you REALLY want some free compressor horsepower without scavenging ANY power from the engine, then how about a rocket-spun turbo? I believe they would fall within the unlimited rules (if you could still find one, that is)...

TURBONIQUE - this IS rocket science!

http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2006/04/the_real_acme.html

More turbonique-related websites:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=turbonique&btnG=Google+Search

Zoom, zoom, zooooooom...

.

[jarrodeu]

Re: Team 51 Unlimited air racing

If you REALLY want some free compressor horsepower without scavenging ANY power from the engine, then how about a rocket-spun turbo? I believe they would fall within the unlimited rules (if you could still find one, that is)...

TURBONIQUE - this IS rocket science!

http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2006/04/the_real_acme.html

More turbonique-related websites:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=turbonique&btnG=Google+Search

Zoom, zoom, zooooooom...

.

Very cool! never heard of it.
I'm sure you could make one.

Jarrod