unlimited drivers

[Hans Oberev]

Are the unlimited pilots hired or do they buy there way in given they have the proper credentials of course?
I ask this ? inlight of the current state of affairs with Rear Bear. While I had the unexpected pleasure of talking with John Penny in the paddock/pits Sunday afternoon after the races I did not think it was appropriate to ask him why he was not flying Rare Bear. Given the public knowledge of what caused "the flux capacitor" to malfunction, I was just wondering why the change in pilots. Is it money related or just something else which maybe none of our business. I know in automobile racing, it's not always the fastest guy that gets the seat but sometimes especially if your the number two man, it's all about the money! Of course you have to have the credentials but sometimes I wonder how certain people are allowed on the race course. What's up in air racing?

PS. This is my 4th year in a row attending the Reno Air Races. I attended college out here in the 70's and attended several races then. Before that I remember watching the race on Wide World Of Sports from my house in New Hampshire. This is a very special race...I wish the local Reno paper would treat it as such but that is another topic.

[speeddemon]

Re: unlimited drivers

It was a mutually agreed upon separation based on a difference in opinion over some competition issues.

How's that for being non-specific PC?

Pilots rarely 'buy' their way into the seat of an aircraft. Someone like Dan Martin, for example, leased Dago so he could fly it himself. But others, like Skip Holm are hired by the team to fly the given aircraft.

I'd say, though, that 99% of the guys who AREN'T flying their own airplane are there because they would give their left n*t to be in the cockpit of an Unlimited, and therefore pretty much will do it just for the opportunity.

[Hans Oberev]

Re: unlimited drivers

Speeddemon,
That is about as clear as mud!! Is it classified intel? Come on man, give it up! What competition issues are you referring to? I just got a private email response that Penney announced his retrirement after his 05 win in Reno and the return to jets was puzzling! Two hits and two different explinations!
Dazed and Confused,
Hans

P.S. I have a few friends that are owners/drivers of vintage formula one cars. I thought that was an expensive venture until I was exposed to the unlimited's. 56 spark plugs! Holy crap batman! Are these planes going to go on forever? What is the inventory of Merlin RR engine blocks and Wrights? I know in F1 there are people out there building parts from scratch, tubs, suspension components and yes even engine parts! Why couldn't the same thing happen with the unlimited's. Instead of $2MM maybe the airframe could be built for $750,000! Maybe RR would agree to a limited production run of its 12 cyl Merlin motor! If not by them then by a licensed mfg, i.e. like Cosworth of F1 fame in the 60's. Food for thought!

[BellCobraIV]

Re: unlimited drivers

Come on man, give it up! What competition issues are you referring to?

Sometimes these things are none of the fans business, and that is the way it is.

[Stevo]

Re: unlimited drivers

And if I remember right Penny's retirement was from the Rare Bear air racing team, NOT air racing as a whole. I tried looking for the thread but I think the system dump that happened a while back took it out.

[Hans Oberev]

Re: unlimited drivers

I asked why John Penny was not behind the controls of Rare Bear this year to which John Slack replied, ”some things are simply none of the fans business!” Let me remind John that while millions of dollars are at stake, this is not a business, it is a sport fueled by curiosity and passion!

In my humble opinion, the race announcers, the race program and the race coverage by the local papers is at best trivial! The $20.00 pit pass is worth every John Penny! I froze my butt off sitting in the stands Friday and gave up a white water kayaking trip on Sunday ‘cause I couldn’t get enough of it! What is it you ask?

It is certainly not passing although that would be fun! Those of us that keep coming back year after year know that if you base your whole experience on seeing a pass and I’m talking about passing for position not lapping, then you are probably going to go home disappointed. No, enjoying air racing is much more sophisticated and cerebral than that. We’ll leave the passing to the NASCAR fans! Air racing is all about the suspense and anticipation! Did the mechanics find another mile an hour in the hanger overnight, did the pilot hold back in qualifying saving the engine for the final race and if so how much more does the engine have and will it hold together if used? An example of this was watching Tiger come to the front trying to reel in Michael Brown. Does Strega have more, will she hold together, what’s going on in September Fury, are the gauges going to ****? Speaking of info, can “fans” use scanners to monitor communication between pilot and the tower (race control) and ground crew like we use in auto racing? That would make it more interesting! Or, would that fall into the category of “none of our business.”

Elitism and air-o-gance will serve no purpose but to erode the fan base of the sport! Having said that I am on my way to motor vehicle to buy my RARA plates!

Cheers,
Hans

[BellCobraIV]

Re: unlimited drivers

I asked why John Penny was not behind the controls of Rare Bear this year to which John Slack replied, ”some things are simply none of the fans business!”


Elitism and air-o-gance will serve no purpose but to erode the fan base of the sport! Having said that I am on my way to motor vehicle to buy my RARA plates!

Cheers,
Hans

Hans,

I am sorry if I have offended you with my answer, I do not feel I am being elite or arogant even though I am probably very capable of both. I will come here and post on technical questions as I have been asked to by Wayne Sagar and some others. However I feel that drawing the line at anything that resembles commenting on personalities, or anything else on the soap opera side of air racing is something I am done with. That is the people side of the sport and it doesn't just act as function of Horsepower/mass, Lift/Drag, sometimes it can be performance, sometimes it's not. But that part shouldn't be the deciding factor of whether you go to Reno or not, And that is just my opinion. So from now on I am trying not to get involved with that version of the "show".

[Randy Haskin]

Re: unlimited drivers

Let me remind John that while millions of dollars are at stake, this is not a business, it is a sport fueled by curiosity and passion!

While there is certainly truth to that, also remember that the owners, pilots, and crews are all real people with real lives. Just because they perform on a public stage doesn't mean that they surrender their lives to public curiosity. They deserve their right to privacy just as much as the rest of us do.

It is none of our damn business what the political and personal reasons are behind the decisions that aircraft owners and operators make.

Sometimes people have disagreements, arguments, hatred, love, whatever between themselves. Sometimes those people happen to be raceplane owners, crews, and pilots. All of that stuff is strictly *between them*, and isn't anyone else's business regardless of how much of a spectator they might be.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: unlimited drivers

John, all.. hope I'm not carrying this further than anyone would like by responding (trying to put to bed)

I don't it's digging into anything private to repeat, pretty much, what John Penney said when he resigned as pilot...

Was something to the effect that the time had come for the team to move in a different direction and that he felt that a different pilot might be right for that job.

Again, that is not an exact quote, I left before John made his speech but we talked, at length, about it later and that is about the feeling I got from him.

I think John said it pretty well... Nobody's feather's ruffled, nobody's feelings hurt..

Just a different chapter in both the Rare Bear's and John Penney's log books.

Lyle said something that he said was quotable at PRS this year, regarding John Penny's time in the Bear... "He sure flew the airplane well" "there just comes a time when it's better to make changes"

I know John Penney and Lyle Shelton have the greatest of respect for each other! Both speak very highly of each other, both are great pilots and heroes of the sport!

Wayne
nuff said?

[Bear Driver]

Re: unlimited drivers

There’s been enough speculation going around this thread to write a soap opera plot. Fact is I was aware that Lyle wanted some changes in the operation of the “Bear” team and I felt it appropriate to step aside without any drama being played out in a public forum (such as appeared on another web site between 2004 and 2005).

My decision was personal; there were never any words of animosity between Lyle and me, and our interaction was respectful. To set the record straight I have never used the “R” word (retire), and if the opportunity were to present itself I would be honored and privileged to fly as a member of a winning air race team. If memory serves, my words that evening at the banquet were something like: “The time has come for John Penney to step aside so that Lyle Shelton can have a flying program and racing program that is more attuned to his philosophies and desires. And, Ron Buccarelli is a perfect fit for that program”. After that I tried to recognize and honor the dedication and effort of one of air racing’s finest crews. It was all matter of fact with no tears, although facing those fine crewmembers afterward was emotionally difficult. Not one word was ever said about retirement.

There were many issues in the decision process, but John Slack has stated it succinctly: “Sometimes these things are none of the fans business, and that is the way it is.”

To answer Hans’ question about being hired, with few exceptions, those on the “Bear” team have all been volunteers over the years. We shared in the successes in winning years, and went home with fewer dollars in our pockets in the lean years. Net outlays for me over the last two decades could have bought a pretty nice car!

Now, Lyle Shelton. There simply has not been the appropriate public recognition of the achievements of the most accomplished race pilot in the history of air racing. Lyle has won more races than any other race pilot in the history of the sport, and he still holds the World 3 kilometer speed and time to climb records. No one will ever be able to equal or exceed that record; not Skip, “Tiger”, Mike, or anyone else to come along. His legacy will stand alone in the record books. Lyle Shelton is the embodiment of the spirit of the sport of unlimited air racing. History should recognize that.

John Penney

**Admin Note: John Penney is regeistered, though with this post, he was not logged in**

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: unlimited drivers

John,

As always, you put it in words better than anyone else could!

I sent you a password reminder so that if you choose to join in again, you will be logged in as "Bear" Driver your chosen username!

Thanks for dropping by, I never did manage to find you at Reno this time round! Helps to have a common place to check in I guess!

Wayne

[Hans Oberev]

Re: unlimited drivers

To all contributors to this thread,
Thank you for your input! I forgot to mention how exicted I was to find this forum. I found the race coverage by our local Reno newpapers to be on the light side and I had many burning questions unanswered! Apparantly Lyle Shelton's racing strategy, tactics, philosphy, direction, competiton issues etc.. are top secret...off limits but to a select few..not open for discussion or public consumption.

A few years ago, the newpaper covered the races in depth! There was a nice piece about Rare Bear and Lyle Shelton. Too me, more information makes for a more interesting time following the sport...any sport! This is one of ther reasons NASCAR is so successful. Fans can become emotionally and intimately invested in their teams. What is so secrete about the philisophical direction you want to take a team?

Losing Rare Bear and Dego Red was a huge disappointment! That's part of racing, I understand that! I will remain a fan with a special interest in Rare Bear regardless of the knowledge available for public consumption. As it is a pilot's job to know how much to push his equipment and when enough is enough so to is it our job to ask probing questions and to know when to back off. With all due respect I hear you.

Hans

[Eric]

Re: unlimited drivers

Thanks guys for such a great thread.

[rje71]

Re: unlimited drivers

John .... if you ever get the chance would be great to hear about some of your time spent in the SLUF ...

RJ

[Gary Osif]

Re: unlimited drivers

With all the rumors of Mr. Penneys' retirement, I was pleased to see him in the pits again this year.

It was early in the week, hardly anyone around. He was wanting to buy a T-Shirt from the Sept Pops tent. But, get this; John was insisting to Monique Brown on paying a cool C-note for the shirt, to which she refused. They went back and forth with him insisting and her refusing for a few minutes and it was fairly comical!

Here's a pic of John from last year....Good to see you again this year!

Gary