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**BellCobraIV** · 10-05-2006, 07:38 AM

Re: MPH record???

Lyle Shelton in Rare Bear, holds the World Absolute 3KM. Speed record for piston engined Aircraft at 528.329 MPH. He has held that record since August of 1989. You must make six passes, then you take the average of the fastest four consecutive passes. (that makes two in each direction. The course is set-up with a corridor of 1 km for entrance, then 3 km for timing, then an exit corridor of 1 km. altitude may only vary 300 feet from entering the first frame of the 3 km corridor to exiting it. Then you must turn around, level out and renenter without exceeding 1500 feet AGL and re-enter the timing corridor. Lyle said the record run was more demanding than any of the racing he had ever done at Reno. As a side note the record would have have been in the 540 zone had the mighty Bearcat not run out of nitrous oxide on the last pass, it then slowed as a combination of loosing the nitrous and running richer due to the enrichment. The previous record holders were Steve Hinton in the Red Baron in August of 1979 at 499 MPH, Darryl Greenameyer in Conquest 1 in August of 1969 at 468. Prior to that the Record was Held by Fritz Wendel in the Me-209R set in the year 1939. The Me-209R was a fully funded Nazi propanganda machine. Lyle has held the record for 17 years. The only people that have held it longer were the Messerschmitt group. Lyle and the Rare Bear team moved the record farther forward that day than anyone else had moved it combined in fifty years. The record was broken conservatively on the day before, to assure that the team would hold the record. Following attaining record status the plan was to run MAX power to put the record out of J.R. Sandbergs reasonable reach as J.R. was on a record attempt in wendover Utah the following month. When we left New Mexico we thought that the following month we would no longer hold the record. But that was a phone call Tsunami didn't answer.

**speeddemon** · 10-05-2006, 07:44 AM

Re: MPH record???

Originally posted by BellCobraIV

Lyle Shelton in Rare Bear, holds the World Absolute 3KM. Speed record for piston engined Aircraft at 528.329 MPH. He has held that record since August of 1989. You must make six passes, then you take the average of the fastest four consecutive passes. (that makes two in each direction. The course is set-up with a corridor of 1 km for entrance, then 3 km for timing, then an exit corridor of 1 km. altitude may only vary 300 feet from entering the first frame of the 3 km corridor to exiting it. Then you must turn around, level out and renenter without exceeding 1500 feet AGL and re-enter the timing corridor. Lyle said the record run was more demanding than any of the racing he had ever done at Reno. As a side note the record would have have been in the 540 zone had the mighty Bearcat not run out of nitrous oxide on the last pass, it then slowed as a combination of loosing the nitrous and running richer due to the enrichment. The previous record holders were Steve Hinton in the Red Baron in August of 1979 at 499 MPH, Darryl Greenameyer in Conquest 1 in August of 1969 at 468. Prior to that the Record was Held by Fritz Wendel in the Me-209R set in the year 1939. The Me-209R was a fully funded Nazi propanganda machine. Lyle has held the record for 17 years. The only people that have held it longer were the Messerschmitt group.

You say that like you were THERE or something.....

**BellCobraIV** · 10-05-2006, 07:47 AM

Re: MPH record???

I am proud to say I was. And still hold this dear to my heart.

**h34race** · 10-05-2006, 07:49 AM

Re: MPH record???

Hey didn't dago red have it for a little while thought I saw it on the side of the plane know it was a smaller number but I thought it was on there can anyone shed some light?thanks

**speeddemon** · 10-05-2006, 07:53 AM

Re: MPH record???

Originally posted by BellCobraIV

I am proud to say I was. And still hold this dear to my heart.

You guys did this within a week or two before Jack Sandberg did his high-profile attempt in Tsunami at Wendover. I'm sure you guys were aware of it at the time...but did it have any psychological effect on Lyle to get it done 'first'?

And it seemed that the Tsunami guys were trying to wave the flag pretty hard and get a lot of attention for their attempt, but you guys never did--no film crews, no magazines, etc. Greenamyer had film crews there for "A Man For The Record", and the Red Baron had ABC there for "American Sportsman". Sandberg had Skyfire at theirs. Did anyone on the team take video of the attempt at all to document it for posterity?

I've only got some still photos that Lyle gave me several years ago of the run...but I've never seen anything 'moving'.

**mayday51** · 10-05-2006, 07:54 AM

Re: MPH record???

I thought a prop driven plane record was/is held by the
Tupolev "Bear" bomber...~575mph.

....I'll agree with RB as piston powered record holder.

**BellCobraIV** · 10-05-2006, 07:55 AM

Re: MPH record???

Dago Red has the record for the 15 km, at I think 517 MPH. The crown jewel over the history of speed records has been the 3 km record, as it is much more restrictive in the parameter department.

**tex-fan** · 10-05-2006, 08:02 AM

Re: MPH record???

Thanks John for the info, looks like another great page in the life of a great plane, and a GREAT pilot.

**speeddemon** · 10-05-2006, 08:07 AM

Re: MPH record???

Originally posted by h34race

Hey didn't dago red have it for a little while thought I saw it on the side of the plane know it was a smaller number but I thought it was on there can anyone shed some light?thanks

As BCIV said, they hold it for the 15km course. Dago DID, however, make an attempt at the 3km record in 1984. Ken Robertson, the crew chief, was the pilot, and they were doing it out of a small strip in Colorado. Blew one engine, and then Ken had a taxi incident with the spotter aircraft. Didn't turn out very well...and like most of the other attempts, it was done only a few weeks prior to Reno.

**BellCobraIV** · 10-05-2006, 08:28 AM

Re: MPH record???

Originally posted by speeddemon

You guys did this within a week or two before Jack Sandberg did his high-profile attempt in Tsunami at Wendover. I'm sure you guys were aware of it at the time...but did it have any psychological effect on Lyle to get it done 'first'?

And it seemed that the Tsunami guys were trying to wave the flag pretty hard and get a lot of attention for their attempt, but you guys never did--no film crews, no magazines, etc. Greenamyer had film crews there for "A Man For The Record", and the Red Baron had ABC there for "American Sportsman". Sandberg had Skyfire at theirs. Did anyone on the team take video of the attempt at all to document it for posterity?

I've only got some still photos that Lyle gave me several years ago of the run...but I've never seen anything 'moving'.

Yes to all the above,

Dave Cornell and I walked by Jack Sandberg's pit after the race in 1988, and he was very pleased with the performance of his airplane. At one point in the conversation J.R and Dave started talking about the 3 Km record. J.R. Told us that he had the June through August time slot reserved, Dave asked him if we could make a run during that time, J.R. with a little grin replied no he was keeping the whole slot. (tech note #1; When requesting a time slot from the NAA/FAI you get a 90 day window that exclusively gives you the time for that particular record. You may elect to allow another to attempt the record but the time slot is yours.) Dave went home from Reno and tried to book the time that J.R. hadn't in either the preceeding ninety days, or the following ninety days. The staff at the NAA informed Dave that there was no time slot booked for the 3 KM record during the June to August slot at which point Dave booked it for Lyle! Sharon Sandberg later told me her dad went through the roof when he called two weeks after Dave and found out he had lost his slot because of his conversation at Reno. The Rare Bear team had some people at the record attempt with cameras and video equipment. However the turn out from the aviation community was puny at best. Rare Bear sponsor Jack Deboer set the 3 km record for the Lear 35 class aircraft that weekend in his Lear 35. Ray Cote failed an engine in his racer the same weekend at our record run. Even Lyle's engine sponsor George Byard from Aircraft Cylinder and turbine went to Wendover to see the Tsunami run instead.
Somewhere at home I have a video of the record that Lyle owns the right to and has never been released.
At Reno that year in the late afternoon, Lyle took off and during a test flight made two passes for "calibration purposes" over the pit area in excess of 541 MPH. I still believe to this day that no matter what else I have worked on the Rare Bear when properly maintained and fully healthy is the absolute beast that nothing else can touch. Part of this comes from standing at the end of the runway during the passes with a radio to call out the reminder Nitrous on, when level and Nitrous Off, when going out the other end. When the plane flew over me it literally sucked the air out of me. I have been on the pylons on a Sunday Gold before and nothing can compare the Bear that day straight and level sucking everything in, burning it and spitting it back out.

**tex-fan** · 10-05-2006, 09:06 AM

Re: MPH record???

Hey John, what does the bear drink in fuel at those kind of speeds? It must have a fuel line like a fire hose!! One more question; can planes like the bear and dago and other race planes do loops and rolls like an undedicated race plane? I saw Howard Pardue preform in his beactcat at alliance and he sure put on a show. I was just wondering if the clipped wings and other race mods effected the plane in that way.

**Peashooter** · 10-05-2006, 10:07 AM

Re: MPH record???

The record set by Conquest I in August of 1969 was 483 mph, besting the record previously set by Fritz Wendel of 469 in 1939.

Grumman F8F-2 "Bearcat"

http://www.aviation-history.com/garber/vg-bldg/grumman_F8F-1_c.html

Keep in mind that the Macchi Castoldi MC-72 seaplane speed record of 440.68 mph still stands. It was set in 1933!

Just a moment...

https://www.aviationtrivia.homestead.com/MC72.html

**MustangFan** · 10-05-2006, 10:15 AM

Re: MPH record???

Originally posted by Peashooter

Keep in mind that the Macchi Castoldi MC-72 seaplane speed record of 440.68 mph still stands. It was set in 1933!

I say put some pontoons on Dago and go get that sucker!

**FlyKidChris** · 10-05-2006, 10:23 AM

Re: MPH record???

IIRC, there was a plan to do just that, but with Tsunami. I can't remember where I saw that plan, though (perhaps a Sport Aviation article many years ago).

John Slack,
I really enjoy your posts and comments. I think many others do as well. Have you considered writing an article about some of your Rare Bear experiences? Your two posts in this thread would be a great start.
I believe you have a gift, both in ability and experience, that many other forum members (and lurkers, too) would genuinely enjoy.
Again, thanks for your posts.
Chris

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