MPH record???

[grampi]

Re: MPH record???

When I was at Reno in '99 and '00 there was some mention of a speed record on the side of the fuselage on Dago that listed a speed of 536.xxx MPH. What was that record? At any rate, I think Dago could beat Bear's record.

[wolfee]

Re: MPH record???

Aswome stuff here guys!.. I am drooling at all the info you all have posted!

At any rate, I think Dago could beat Bear's record.

I think the Bear her self could best her record if she were to be totaly healthy. But yeah Strega, and Dago both could probibly best that record as it stands now.

[speeddemon]

Re: MPH record???

When I was at Reno in '99 and '00 there was some mention of a speed record on the side of the fuselage on Dago that listed a speed of 536.xxx MPH. What was that record? At any rate, I think Dago could beat Bear's record.

There are those that 'could'...and there are those that "DO". And having been involved in setting a world speed record myself (one in which many 'potentially faster' competitors scoffed at, but have yet to better), until you actually put your money where you mouth is and DO it, it's all talk and nothing more.

It is not as easy as it sounds, nor as it looks on paper.

[BellCobraIV]

Re: MPH record???

When I was at Reno in '99 and '00 there was some mention of a speed record on the side of the fuselage on Dago that listed a speed of 536.xxx MPH. What was that record? At any rate, I think Dago could beat Bear's record.

Dago's 15 km. record at 536.xxx was not approved by the NAA as it did not meet the standards set by the NAA to be an approved record. Also it was the 15km. record which we talked about earlier that is very difficult to set. a lot of the problem in setting that record is the verification process. I would say no doubt that anyone that has been to Reno and seen high 490 laps has seen speeds that exceed the Bears 528.329 as the planes head down the valley of speed.

But you are required to use a measured 3 km course, approved by the NAA/FAI, and follow the procedures to have a record. Until then you've just gone really fast

[BellCobraIV]

Re: MPH record???

One more question; can planes like the bear and dago and other race planes do loops and rolls like an undedicated race plane? I saw Howard Pardue preform in his bearcat at alliance and he sure put on a show. I was just wondering if the clipped wings and other race mods effected the plane in that way.

Yes, they can, at least for a clipped wing Mustang: Roll rate is a little less due to smaller ailerons. Loops are fine, seems to get a little "nibbly" sooner. Just fly the loop a bit faster and with a little less G in the pull.
VL[/QUOTE]

Both Lyle at several locations and Skip at Paso Robles have done really impressive air show demonstrations in Rare Bear.

[Steve H]

Re: MPH record???

Yes, they can, at least for a clipped wing Mustang: Roll rate is a little less due to smaller ailerons. Loops are fine, seems to get a little "nibbly" sooner. Just fly the loop a bit faster and with a little less G in the pull.
VL

Both Lyle at several locations and Skip at Paso Robles have done really impressive air show demonstrations in Rare Bear.[/QUOTE]

Now that I would love to see!!!

[wolfee]

Re: MPH record???

I seem to remeber most of the pilots *used* to do barrel roles once they crossed the finish line. I'm not sure why they dont do it now, but I would guess the FAA had a say in it.

[stuntflyr]

Re: MPH record???

I seem to remeber most of the pilots *used* to do barrel roles once they crossed the finish line. I'm not sure why they dont do it now, but I would guess the FAA had a say in it.

The last one I saw was Clay Lacy in 1970 so you must mean a long time ago!
Chris...

[BellCobraIV]

Re: MPH record???

Wow, another incredible post by John Slack, this time on the time-to-climb record. Thanks, John!!!

What was the Bear's climb-angle like on the record-setting run?

Matt,

I talked to Lyle several times since you asked this question but today remembered to dig a little deeper.
Chris McMillan was right the initial plan was to hold the speed at 160-165 knotts, and that was about a 45 degree climb angle, Lyle said he ran into cooler air at about 3,000 to 4,000 feet and lowered the angle to 25 degrees, but soon after came back to about 30 degrees increasing back to 45 degrees until at about 8,500 hundred feet he started to zoom vertical unloading the airplane and as he put it going through 10,000 kind of like a dart. Lyle increased the climb speed about 5 knotts per five thousand feet prior to the final push through 8,500 -10,000. and at the end of the vertical part was down to about 60 - 65 knotts. He was clear about the whole episode like it happened yesterday. Hope this answers your question and I hope you enjoy reading it as much as I enjoyed listening to my dad tell it. BTW, it is actually less than 10,000 feet as it is the 3,000 meter record.

[Peashooter]

Re: MPH record???

John: For a guy like me who grew up around Bearcat N7701C when it was at KLUK (later the ill-fated Escape II) in the late 60s, and E.P. Lunken who flew the modified P-51 Ms. Buttonpuss in the Bendix races, hearing this historic stuff is just awesome! Thanks to you and Lyle for sharing these one-of-a-kind experiences. As they say in the commercials, "Priceless"! Peas

[BellCobraIV]

Re: MPH record???

Peashooter,

Having grown up around a lot of really neat airplanes that this particular group of people enjoy I must admit I took for granted. I think Matt Jackson can relate to this next story;

When I was in the fifth grade I was not allowed to play with one of my friends anymore because when talking with him I would talk about P-51s and Bearcats like they were all over the place. The other kid's father thought I was delusional (a thought many have had over the years for other reasons). I would come to school on Monday talking about a weekends worth of watching Mustangs fly around Chino. How Frank Sanders had put on a great show at this other airport. In this guy's dads mind, I had too big an imagination to play with his son. So that was that. But in the reality of the time and to put it into perspective, I probably didn't believe that other kids had fathers that would play baseball with them every week. All of my dad's friends had Mustangs, Bearcats, or other warbirds. We'd fly down to Mercedes Texas and visit Lefty Gardner, same story. The end to this is I grew with a privilege I didn't realize at the time. The good side is the memories that I can now share of those days, Wayne Sagar for years has beat on me to open up a little more, share a little more. So I'm giving that a try, I don't know it all, but I know what I have done over the years, and sometimes my memories are masked by the vision of a one sided field of view. One of my greatest memories and one I am sure that Steve Hinton does not remember was sitting on the grass at I think Merced with him and Jimmy Maloney I was really just a kid, but they were there with the Mustang and the Hellcat, and listening to those guys talk about the planes they worked on every day and flew. WOW! they were cool!

The reason I said Matt Jackson could relate was little Matt ( Now Big Matt the Marine) once kind of went through the same thing with kids at school, But Matt told little Matt to have the kids out on the playground at a certain time and he flew the Mustang over the school. It's a better story when Matt J tells it but that is his story to tell.

I've never been a camera kinda guy, and owe a debt of gratitude to those that are, the guys that document the events that I have witnessed or been privileged enough to participate in. I don't stop often enough to say thanks, but thank you guys for the interest in reading the scattered thoughts, otherwise they would just stay in dusty boxes that are in my minds eye. The question regarding the time to climb sparked a pretty good conversation with my dad that I hadn't had before. So thank you guys. I have to stop now, Dwight would be telling me to stop pretending to be humble, I don't do it well.

[440_Magnum]

Re: MPH record???

Incredibly cool thread. Thanks John (and everyone else) for giving us a glimpse of what it was like to grow up around these people and machines. Its a real treat for those of use who only got to go to maybe one airshow a year and walk around the planes for no more than an hour or so. I've said before that seeing Lefty's show in White Lightnin' circa early 70s is a big part of what put me on track to become an engineer. Yeah, I soon figured out that aerospace engineers pretty much had to move to Seattle or St. Louis or Long Beach, where they spent most of their time thinking up ways to make "boring old jets" lighter and cheaper so I went into another branch of engineering.... but it still affected the course of my life.

[Eric]

Re: MPH record???

I've never been a camera kinda guy, and owe a debt of gratitude to those that are, the guys that document the events that I have witnessed or been privileged enough to participate in. I don't stop often enough to say thanks, but thank you guys for the interest in reading the scattered thoughts, otherwise they would just stay in dusty boxes that are in my minds eye. The question regarding the time to climb sparked a pretty good conversation with my dad that I hadn't had before. So thank you guys. I have to stop now, Dwight would be telling me to stop pretending to be humble, I don't do it well.

Thank you sir for taking the time to able to put your personal thoughts to the keyboard and share the memories you have had. Great reading!

[speeddemon]

Re: MPH record???

Yeah, I soon figured out that aerospace engineers pretty much had to move to Seattle or St. Louis or Long Beach, where they spent most of their time thinking up ways to make "boring old jets" lighter and cheaper so I went into another branch of engineering.... but it still affected the course of my life.

Seattle wasn't exactly like Van Nuys in the '70's or Chino in the '80's....but there were certainly air racing and warbird opportunities up here. Chuck Lyford had the Bardahl Special up here...as did Chuck Hall and Miss RJ, Ben Hall with his Mustang, the T-6 racers, and the F-86A. Miss America was here for 7 or 8 years, and the great "Gotcha" Racing Team had their plethora of T-6 racers, as well as the 'never flown' Corsair racer...which still grew up to be Jim Landry's "Big Hog". The T-6 racers have always had pretty strong representation up here too. In recent times MAII and Furias represented the Unlimited side of the house.

So it's certainly not ALL bad having to move to a place like this. Maybe it was a missed opportunity. :-)

[Unregistered]

Re: MPH record???

John: For a guy like me who grew up around Bearcat N7701C when it was at KLUK (later the ill-fated Escape II) in the late 60s, and E.P. Lunken who flew the modified P-51 Ms. Buttonpuss in the Bendix races, hearing this historic stuff is just awesome! Thanks to you and Lyle for sharing these one-of-a-kind experiences. As they say in the commercials, "Priceless"! Peas

Peashooter,
The first time I saw N7701C was at Hangar 12 at JFK, parked over by Building 95 which was the TWA New York Training Center. It was owned by Ron Reynolds at that time and painted in a beautiful dark blue and white scheme (was it the same as Eddie Lunkin's scheme?). We were flying to Europe on vacation in a TWA 747 and I about came out of my seat, Dad explaining that Ron commuted to work from Danbury, CT across the Long Island Sound to JFK in the Bearcat. Ron was Senior Vice President-Flight Operations at TWA. After Mike Geren was killed in N5005, Ron decided to move his Bearcat and traded it to John Sliker. I never knew why Sliker stripped that paint job. It looked great to me.
Chris...