Radial Engine P-51 Mustang

[Bob]

Re: Radial Engine P-51 Mustang

I personally don't think radial fits a Mustang.

With enough cutting it will

[BellCobraIV]

Re: Radial Engine P-51 Mustang

You know everyone is down on the inline engine but I haven't seen one round engine turn a single lap as fast as the lap average of dago in 2003.

Since I'm in a posting mood, lets clear this up.
While I know they are not published I will tell you for a fact that the fastest airspeed, not lap speed ever run at Reno was the greatest race ever run, The Bear, The Witch, and the Wave. My source is unimpeachable on this and had the best seat in the house for that show.

The course "correction" really did a diservice to all the fans.

[wyhdah]

Re: Radial Engine P-51 Mustang

John I get where you are coming from and I agree. However, we are taliking about the current configuration, what I have personally seen, and what the record books will show. All this talk about the Mustangs needing a reconfigure can cease at that race average.

I think even the Bear fans can admit that it was an impressive run and unfortunately the records will not show the airspeed or any of that other great downloaded data.

[Red]

Re: Radial Engine P-51 Mustang

Since I'm in a posting mood, lets clear this up.
While I know they are not published I will tell you for a fact that the fastest airspeed, not lap speed ever run at Reno was the greatest race ever run, The Bear, The Witch, and the Wave. My source is unimpeachable on this and had the best seat in the house for that show.

The course "correction" really did a diservice to all the fans.

I vividly remember that race ('91?) and thinking holy $hit "The Wave" was really hauling! Best race EVAH!!!

[John]

Re: Radial Engine P-51 Mustang

For comparison to the older course; what is the distance measured pylon to pylon around the new(unlimited) course?

[BellCobraIV]

Re: Radial Engine P-51 Mustang

John I get where you are coming from and I agree. However, we are taliking about the current configuration, what I have personally seen, and what the record books will show. All this talk about the Mustangs needing a reconfigure can cease at that race average.

I think even the Bear fans can admit that it was an impressive run and unfortunately the records will not show the airspeed or any of that other great downloaded data.

wyhdah,

Also understand that as an employee of Mystery Aire at that time and an integral part of the Dwight Thorn-Steve Bartholf-John Slack menage a'trois as Dwight called it, I have great pride in that years performance. The level of Merlin engines that came from Mystery Aire has yet to be repeated, since that time darkness has prevailed in the Merlin world.

But I think that Strega is on the right path, and will run very hard with the Bear next year.

Go Tiger!

[Matt Jackson]

Re: Radial Engine P-51 Mustang

I here hear same story year after year and facts are facts. The Bear holds many impressive records. The fact clearly shows Dago as the fastest course speed and race average of the current course. Comparing this course to the old course is like comparing apples to oranges. The race is now not then. Lets see what this course holds for the future. If you talk to the guys from the Cleveland days they claim they were going faster for longer back then. If and when the Bear breaks Dago's race record we can all pay homage to the victor. The problem I see is again the dreaded critical mach number on the wing. I have seen instability on the Bear about 10 kts before the Mustang. Its a close call and time will tell. If anyone can make it go fast it will be Dave Cornell and crew. Until that time Dago's got the course record.

Matt J

[Matt Jackson]

Re: Radial Engine P-51 Mustang

One other small tid bit. I was at the race as well as I recall. What I remember was Tsunami claimed the highest single lap speed on the second to last lap when Skip reduced his RPM 25 after the nitros ran out. The race was I admit was one of the best of record for sure. The fastest ever I am not so sure.

[Mluvara]

Re: Radial Engine P-51 Mustang

Since I'm in a posting mood, lets clear this up.
While I know they are not published I will tell you for a fact that the fastest airspeed, not lap speed ever run at Reno was the greatest race ever run, The Bear, The Witch, and the Wave. My source is unimpeachable on this and had the best seat in the house for that show.

The course "correction" really did a diservice to all the fans.

Excluding the physical course geometry changes over the years, I think the conversion is ~2% for the new vs old timing, so this would put the 1991 (481.618) course average at 491mph.

Reversing Dago's 507mph run yields 497mph, still above the corrected 1991 run.

The other issue is that I don't really trust any IAS indicator that those speeds. There are a lot of issues at those mach numbers as the aircraft instruments/pitot were not necessarily designed and calibrated for those speeds.

The scary part is wondering what Dago would have done if they actually pushed it up... Second place sets the pace, so I'd imagine the Bear was using all they had in 2003.

Michael

[440_Magnum]

Re: Radial Engine P-51 Mustang

I've had a similiar experience with diesel Wayne. I pull a 15,000 lb, 30' 5th wheel with a 99 Ford powerstroke. You can set the cruise control to 65 and it will climb over Donner without losing speed. All kinds of torgue and power. BUT, it is a dog for acceleration, pretty much you mash your foot to the floor and wait for everything to spool up!
There are goodies out there to solve that if you are the type to modify.
Does the same equate to aircraft engines? That lag would be a killer, kind of like the early jets.

There's no real reason that diesels MUST be low-revving stump pullers with lots of turbo lag. That just happens to be the dominant application, so most of them are built that way. Clean sheet of paper- you could build a racing diesel that would perform much like current gasoline racing engines.

And even with just a few mods to the stump-pullers.... ahem:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fhAhjjKiqXM&feature=related

Its really amazing what you can do with a turbocharger when detonation is no longer an issue at all. Since a diesel *can't* detonate, the only real limit on boost is how much presssure the gaskets, head bolts, and connecting rods can tolerate.

[t-dub]

Re: Radial Engine P-51 Mustang

There's no real reason that diesels MUST be low-revving stump pullers with lots of turbo lag. That just happens to be the dominant application, so most of them are built that way. Clean sheet of paper- you could build a racing diesel that would perform much like current gasoline racing engines.

And even with just a few mods to the stump-pullers.... ahem:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fhAhjjKiqXM&feature=related

Its really amazing what you can do with a turbocharger when detonation is no longer an issue at all. Since a diesel *can't* detonate, the only real limit on boost is how much presssure the gaskets, head bolts, and connecting rods can tolerate.

Just take a look at what Audi is doing with the diesel in the sports car racing world, Dominating! And that's not just speed, but acceleration too......

[wyhdah]

Re: Radial Engine P-51 Mustang

Just take a look at what Audi is doing with the diesel in the sports car racing world, Dominating! And that's not just speed, but acceleration too......

An amazing race piece without doubt.

[BellCobraIV]

Re: Radial Engine P-51 Mustang

The scary part is wondering what Dago would have done if they actually pushed it up... Second place sets the pace, so I'd imagine the Bear was using all they had in 2003.

Michael

Michael,

I see your point and will accept your answer as well, But as for how fast the Bear is now compared to then, The biggest speed secret that Rare Bear had was Lyle. Lyle was good for better speed than the current guy any day of the week. His competitive drive and expert ability was in the stratosphere were only Bob Love, Darryl Greenameyer, Tiger Destefani, Skip Holm are in the same class. Out of that class the only one that is not military trained is Tiger. That says volumes about the talent of that man also to get into that crowd self trained.

[BellCobraIV]

Re: Radial Engine P-51 Mustang

One other small tid bit. I was at the race as well as I recall. What I remember was Tsunami claimed the highest single lap speed on the second to last lap when Skip reduced his RPM 25 after the nitros ran out. The race was I admit was one of the best of record for sure. The fastest ever I am not so sure.

Matt is right at the end of the race nothing was moving as fast as Tsunami was. Therefore Skip had the best seat in the house. I was talking not necessarilly about the Bear, but the fact that the Bear the Witch and the Wave were all really out there. Final answer last half lap Tsunami was moving faster than I think anything else ever did.

[jarrodeu]

Re: Radial Engine P-51 Mustang

What was the fastest lap speed Tsunami did during the 1991 Gold race?

Jarrod