This is the new reality of the airline pilot

[Sky Critter]

Re: This is the new reality of the airline pilot

Not knowing much about the airline sector, I have a question...
What's it like in the corporate flying side of things? What are the wages, benefits, hours and working conditions for corporate pilots? Just curious if the issues are industry wide or mostly on the airline side.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: This is the new reality of the airline pilot

I guess the only thing we can take from this is that life isn't fair but at least we have each other to bitch about it with!

Ron,

Next time we're in the same town, first few rounds are on me!

PDX is my hang, when I'm there.. the rest of the time, I'm rusting, enjoying early (read that very poor) retirement, down at the coast..

[Bill Marsh]

Re: This is the new reality of the airline pilot

Fact....
In the transportation industry, including (A/C), the prevailing wages for any maint. , mechanic, machinist what ever has always been lower than the other general "hands on" style blue collar industi=ries. I was in the IAM union at the time.... still we were not at the wage grade as in the other private sectors.

Fact....
Prior to the 911 thingy... journeyman jet shop machinists were making $17 hr @ UAL.... sucks

Fact....
In 1966 I was making $4.35 / hr. @ $9k / year.... i was in fat city and bought my first house; $4K down... $99/mo payment / house sticker price was $16K. Clam happy

Fact .....
Went on strike 66 or early 67....... lost my house


Fact.......
Hey BFD.... u move on

At least i didnt kick my dog or have a bad day in the left seat


BM

[shorebird]

Re: This is the new reality of the airline pilot

All due respect butttt, I thought this was a forum to talk about cool airplanes and racing.
The last thing I want to talk about is work. Even when I'm working I don't want to talk about work....Booorrrring.

When I climb in my little airplane I leave the radio off and forget about ALPA, ETOPS, RVSM, and smashed pay checks.
Boo.... hoo.... the airline business sucks, who cares.

The photos posted on this site are outstanding and remind me that I have no artistic sense. And the stories about racing and record attempts like the one written by the guy on the Rare Bear team are very interesting and entertaining. Keep-em coming.

[georgelakesiii]

Re: This is the new reality of the airline pilot

If the government would force the corporations to fund retirement properly, the Delta pilot may have been able to keep his house. Capitalism works for some and not others. It could be improved. Rent the movie "THE CORPORATION" and you will see better, the direction we're headed.

[First time Juke]

Re: This is the new reality of the airline pilot

double post..sorry !

[First time Juke]

Re: This is the new reality of the airline pilot

My Plumber makes more a year now than I do. His labor rate alone is $95.00/hr
when he set my kitchen sink last May and he's a high school drop out. His
yearly salary is based on a 160 hour work month (40 a week) --My $93.00/hr
and annual salary is based on an 80 hour month (hard time in the air) with
considerably more time on duty and away from home.

I'm out - a - here.......

I think the plumber is overpaid.

I recently read a comics cartoon ( Air Commando ) about a WW II british pilot. He said once: " Gosh this is life; I get to fly all day and they even pay for this fun ! ".

I think $ 89 000,00 annually is a good salary. In Europe I dunno how come they get any money when firms like Ryanair charges under 60 euros from Finland to London and back.

Furthermore...racing with a racer of your own is a dream that becomes a reality to very few of us ever. Unless the racer class is F1 or something even smaller...perhaps one day I also get a racer of my own.

[Cougar347]

Re: This is the new reality of the airline pilot

Sorry, but when I strap my lilly white butt into an airliner seat with my lovely wife next to me, I want the assurance that Mr. Pilot is going to be the best that he can be and will get us to our destination safely. If that means that I have to pay more for my ticket, then so be it. And don't forget those guys who are putting that new engine on the plane, I don't want some washed out trade school dropout mechanic bolting that puppy in there. I don't understand deregulation. Who is it supposed to help? I believe in fair pay for a fair day's work, but I don't think my plumber should be making more money than they guy who has my life in his hands for two hours of airline time. Airlines should not be run like Walmart.

As a victim of corporate "downsizing" myself, I can only add to the lament of others. What happened? Why did we suddenly become stupid when we turned 50 or 55? Doesn't experience count for anything? The company I worked for had an "early retirement" mass exodus about 10 years ago. The compensation was very lucrative, so a lot of folks took it. Funny thing is that they ended up hiring about half of the people back as "consultants" when they found out that these new "whiz kids" didn't know a darn thing about running the company. The rehires were making twice the salary as consultants compared to what they were paid when they were working as employees of the company. Go figure.

[Ron101502]

Re: This is the new reality of the airline pilot

Not gonna argue except for a couple observations. Let's say we get "Hillary Care" and the average doctor pay gets cut between 50 and 70%, I bet there will still be a lot of young, inexperienced folks willing to take doctor jobs. Do you really want to be their patient? It's taken me 41 years of flying, 29 on the airline, to finally check out as a 747-400 captain. Maybe that young kid from Embry Riddle would be more satisfactory if you could save $5 a ticket?

Useing the same metaphor, while it took a friend of mine 15 years from pre-med to med school to intern to resident to be a neurosurgeon, if you're the MBA running the airline, or excuse me, hospital, and you can get a brand new med school grad to do the same job at half the price, guess who's gonna do your brain surgery. After all, it't the same license, right? All ATPs and MDs are equal, right? Experience doesn't matter or at least isn't worth paying extra for. Hey, why not let the nurses do surgery, they're even cheaper!

While there are a few pilots out there who are so disenchanted at being in the right seat for their whole careers that they can be somewhat disengaged at times that is the exception and not the rule. The vast majority of us still know it's the people in the back of the airplane that pay us, and we have a pride that does not us allow less than our best on every flight. After all, our airmanship is one thing the bastards that sign our checks can never have and can never take away from us. And we worked damn hard to get where we are and even harder to stay there. And finally, there's the old adage "doctors bury their mistakes, lawyers appeal their mistakes, pilots die with their mistakes". No disrespect meant towards doctors or lawyers but it's the truth as I see it.

Right now the best job in aviation may be an air traffic controller. They make about $180k, are home every night (or day as they work shifts), retire at 25 years at half pay and get cost of living raises every year. I don't be-grudge that for a second, I think they earned every penny, but next time you're on a wide body jet remember the pilots are earning a lot less. Don't know if that's fair or not, just something for you to consider. If a controller makes a mistake he/she is "retrained" and is never off the payroll. If a pilot makes the same mistake the first offense is 90 days without pay.

Enough of the rant, I consider you guys my customers and respect things from your point of view, just want to share my point with you and you can form your own opinions.

Ron Henning

[TWD]

Re: This is the new reality of the airline pilot

[QUOTE=shorebird]
<<< Boo.... hoo.... the airline business sucks, who cares. >>>


Hey Ron,

I am a furloughed airline pilot, my wife is a furloughed airline pilot and my brother is also a furloughed airline pilot.
I try very hard not to talk about it here.

I'm on this forum to discuss cool airplanes with people that enjoy them. I'm here for the POSITIVE airplane stuff.

How about this:

I promise not to talk about air racing on your union web site and you, in return, try not to fill this Air Racing web site with the negative aspects of your job.

Fly Safe,
TJ

[Lockheed Bob]

Re: This is the new reality of the airline pilot

Well said TJ. We could all squawk about our jobs/retirement,etc but this is a educational & fun forum for air racing/planes.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: This is the new reality of the airline pilot

I don't know... I think there's room here for this type thread..

I can also understand TJ's point..

For a lot of us, the look "inside" the airline industry given by this thread and other's like it has been fairly enlightening. Maybe it's a good thing if more PAX understood what goes on in the background.

NE Way...

[Warren_C]

Re: This is the new reality of the airline pilot

Ron

This is for you, enjoy

http://www.beecy.net/frank/

[Ron101502]

Re: This is the new reality of the airline pilot

Thanks, Warren!